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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
I HAVE BEEN DONE HORRIBLY WRONG BY Dave-Co!!!!!!!
I put a great amount of trust in Dave and paid him a lot of money, to get this???

I came home with very much less then I paid for, had one of the worst experiences in my life when it should have been one of the best, GOT LOOSE CRAP PARTS BACK THAT WERE NOT NEAR AS GOOD OF CONDITION AS WHAT I SENT (WHEN I WAS GUARANTEED MY STUFF WOULD BE MY STUFF), found things were not right within five minutes of being at his home, seconds after meeting Dave I asked if those were my parts laying on the floor and told yes they are, picked up one front arm the first one I picked up and right away I knew it was not my ball joint, Dave sees the look on my face (I had not said a word about the ball joint yet) and defensively tells me that I had sent him a loose ball joint and he gave me another one (Dave never mentioned any of this to me until that moment, I sent him loose crap and he does not say one word not one until the day I get there?), I defensively tell Dave all the parts I went through and that I had cut up a set of mint arms from my wife's pilot for those ball joints, Dave then changes his story and right away tells me that my ball joint must have gotten damaged when welding and if I was not happy with the one he gave me he would get me another one, I started to look at my other ball joints and he right away very defensively tells me if I am not happy he does not want to do my kit, all of this within 5 minutes of being at his home and right after I had stayed up just about all night and driven almost 800 miles to get there. He wanted me there at 12:00 noon, I got there at 12:08. Dave was sitting in his garage waiting for me when I got to his house.

Dave Guaranteed me up and down that those were my ball joints, the ones I had sent and that he had set them all to the side and kept them separate just like I had asked him to, Dave told me that he does not do that for anyone he just did it for me, Dave said that he tells people that it is the luck of the draw what they get back he does not keep peoples parts separate. I did not get to take a super close look at all my ball joints like I wanted to but I did feel them as he was talking to me and they all felt loose the stud moved around in the socket very easily so I knew they were not mine.

I was so freaked out at what had just happened and I had to make a quick decision under a very quickly rising stress level, if I called Dave on the ball joints I was basically going to be calling him a liar and would probably leave there without who knows how much of my stuff. I decided to go ahead and unload my frame, what could I do he had all my money for the kit and best quality heims + my rear shocks, all paid for in full.

So we get my frame unloaded and Dave starts to work on my power steering, I am just standing around getting more and more upset, I start to look at my parts again and realize that none of my swing arms front or rear have weld in threaded bungs for the heims to screw in to, I pick one up and see that there is a cheap little nut welded in the end of the front upper and lower swing arms and the rear upper swing arms have a piece of tubing with a little nut welded in for there heims to screw in to, at this point I can not take it and I blow up, I explain to Dave very loudly that I am not a rich man and that I sacrificed so very very much to get his kit and then I get there and things are not right, I tell Dave that I am not happy and that I will just load my shit and leave, I was so upset I was crying I just could not help it, Dave right away tells me to calm down that he will do what ever needed to make things right. I had only been there for around 30 minutes or so when all of this happened. Dave then asks me what is wrong and I tell him about the bungs, Dave tells me that he no longer uses the bungs that they are not needed, I tell him I paid for threaded weld in bungs and that I knew that my kit was supposed to have them, not cheap little nuts. Dave tells me that no one gets weld in bungs on his kits and that he must have made a special deal with me and agrees to put weld in bungs on my parts. I calm down and decide to stay, he gets back to work but keeps asking me if I am OK. Dave works on my power steering for a few hours giving me time to calm down and then we leave to go and buy the weld in threaded bungs for my parts. At the store where we are buying the bungs I notice that Dave is not buying the bungs for my rear upper swing arms so I pick one up a tell him don't we need these for the rear uppers, Dave tells me right there in the store that he is not redoing the rear swing arms. I will not even try to put in to words how I felt at this point but it was not good.

The rest of the day and evening at Dave's was just me not feeling right at all, I was shaking and very close to just falling apart. I tried not to show it but I am sure it was obvious.
After getting to my motel that night I called my wife and completely fell apart, I did not eat that night and only got an hour or so of sleep.

Everything I have noted above all happened on Friday 3/20/2015, my first day at Dave's home and my first time meeting Dave in person.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
Steve, that is terrible news!
We're you able to at least get things completed? Hopefully not all is lost and any issues can be repaired or replaced by Dave-Co.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 75
Steve,

I'm sorry bud. Your a wonderful man. And I know how hard you worked to get the kit made. I'm praying for you. I hope things get better and this is made right.

Daniel


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Well this sucks, do you have any pictures?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Damn Steve sounds like bad deal. I understand how you feel. Sorry you had to deal with that kind of crap. I hope it works out. Corious to hear the rest of the story.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
I sent Dave this list below on 3/26/2015 asking him to make things right. Dave replied back and basically has told me that he will do nothing accept that I can send the lower steering section back (#6 on the list) and he will fix it. When I was first talking with Dave about doing my power steering I questioned whether or not the lower steering shaft bushing could be changed if it wore out and Dave told me that he welds that section together and once done it can not be taken back apart that if the bushing went bad the whole lower shaft section and coupler would need to be replaced. So how can he fix it when he told me it can not be taken back apart?

First and most important to me, the ball joints in the control arms I got from you are not in near as good of condition as the ones I sent to you. I have compared them to the ones I have here that I chose not to send because they were not as tight as the ones from my wife's pilot that I did send and they are not in as good of condition as the ones I have here. I would Please like a set of control arms with proper tight ball joints like I sent to begin with, with weld in bungs. I will return these arms after I receive the new ones from you.

Second, the rear shock hoops should have been made from 4130, not .095 mild steel. I would Please like a set of hoops made from 4130 and another set of top shock mounts. I will take care of replacing my shock hoops with the ones you send. Not necessary but I would appreciate 2 pieces of 3/4 120 4130 to replace the shock hoop supports since I will have to cut these off when I replace the hoops, 9.5 inches long each.

Third, all the steering parts are also supposed to have weld in bungs. I would like my outer tie rods made with weld in bungs and I would like new inner tie rods made with weld in bungs. All 4130. I will return the inner tie rods you sent me with once I receive the new ones. (Dave had not made my outer tie rods and I had to leave with out them)

Fourth, my rear shock mount kit that I did not receive.

Fifth, no steering stops were installed on the bumper steer. Please send these to me and I will install myself.

Sixth, I am not sure what to do about this but my lower steering shaft sticks out some at the bottom, which means the o-ring at the bottom will not seal.

Seventh, the upper shaft has play where it goes through your upper bearing, it is only tight at full right which I guess means it is not totally straight. I am not sure what can be done about this either.

Eighth and VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT to me, with no shock on I did a rough measurement of wheel travel.

Full droop to full up
LF 13.75 inches
RF 12.50 inches this one does not droop as far as the left front, it sets 1 inch higher off the ground.
LR 11.00 inches
RR 11.00 inches

How can it have almost 14inches of travel in the rear and almost 16inches in the front if the wheel will not even travel that far with out the shock and why is there a 1.25 inch difference between the left and right front. After the rear shocks are on it will have even less travel in the rear. What is going on with this???

There are some more smaller things but I will take care of those.

I do not want to pay any shipping charges as I feel these things should have been proper before I ever got out there.

I do not wish to talk on the phone and argue about anything, please just take care of these problems right away PLEASE!!! I do not want to wait, I have waited a very long time as it is to get this pilot done.

I would like a response from you on what will be done within 24hrs. of you reading this PLEASE!!!

I hope that this can all be fixed and we can both move on.

Thank you, Steve.

PS and the four Heims with nuts that are on order.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Man that sucks big time dude.I have very limited funds also and if i spent that much money on that and it happened to me I would probably cry also.
I was willing to give dave-co benefit of the doubt after his problems with Halorising but nowwith another complaint against him sounds like a bad deal
Good luck to you


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
With the rear shocks removed on my LT Pilot (the old Wolfskill Pilot) I get 12" travel from full droop to as far up as the arm will go and your getting 11" something sounds wrong are you sure everything is adjusted correctly and is not binding some place?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
hoser wrote:
With the rear shocks removed on my LT Pilot (the old Wolfskill Pilot) I get 12" travel from full droop to as far up as the arm will go and your getting 11" something sounds wrong are you sure everything is adjusted correctly and is not binding some place?


I have not adjusted anything, everything is exactly where Dave set up, adjusted and installed it. The only thing I have done is take the front spindles off to check the condition of the ball joints more thoroughly. I did put them back on to measure the amount of travel. I do not want to change anything Dave did at this point.

When I start checking to see if I can make Dave's kit work right myself, I will be checking and trying to straighten out everything.

I want to thank everyone for there support, both public and private. It means a great deal to me and is very, very much appreciated. THANK YOU!!!
I apologize if I do not respond to each and every reply. It is not my intention to ignore anyone. All input is important to me and very much appreciated. I am focusing on the problem at hand.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Hey brother. Im sorry to hear about your issues with Dave. I hope you guys can come to a resolution.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
shitty deal...that really sucks..i hope dave works with you to resolve the problems...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:39 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Sacramento
Dave-co must be tired of trying to explain why he's been getting dissed on so much lately. I'm surprised he hasn't tried to defend himself again.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 328
feel for you Steve.......come on Dave put it right!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:39 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Sacramento
Dave-co needs to man up. He posts every other day now all of a sudden nothing? Interesting he logged on Friday morning after this was posted the Thursday prior and he hasn't been back since. I personally would never want to deal with someone who runs from responsibility . Be nice to get both sides of the story.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Duneit wrote:
Dave-co needs to man up. He posts every other day now all of a sudden nothing? Interesting he logged on Friday morning after this was posted the Thursday prior and he hasn't been back since. I personally would never want to deal with someone who runs from responsibility . Be nice to get both sides of the story.


Yeah I have been watching this one too. Second the opinion above.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Duneit wrote:
Dave-co needs to man up. He posts every other day now all of a sudden nothing? Interesting he logged on Friday morning after this was posted the Thursday prior and he hasn't been back since. I personally would never want to deal with someone who runs from responsibility . Be nice to get both sides of the story.


I don't think it matters if you hear his side,just like the other thread its going to be whoever you choose to believe
But Dave-Co,Im sure your reading this,that's 2 strikes and it doesnt look good.
I don't know Dave-co but when I was looking for a pilot he pm'd me and tried to help,seemed like a nice enough guy.
But felt the same way about shoubadaba


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 2147
Location: St. John, Washington
Last time it shows Dave visited was the 27th. So I doubt he has seen this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
GREED sucks.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Sorry to here and hope Dave will do what he can. If you have any questions re-guarding adjustment do not hesitate to ask.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
Sorry to here and hope Dave will do what he can. If you have any questions re-guarding adjustment do not hesitate to ask.


What adjustments could possibly be made to restore the as found suspension travel to meet the advertised and bragged about suspension travel?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
scpilot66, wrote
"I have not adjusted anything, everything is exactly where Dave set up, adjusted and installed it. The only thing I have done is take the front spindles off to check the condition of the ball joints more thoroughly. I did put them back on to measure the amount of travel. I do not want to change anything Dave did at this point.

When I start checking to see if I can make Dave's kit work right myself, I will be checking and trying to straighten out everything.

Eighth and VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT to me, with no shock on I did a rough measurement of wheel travel.

Full droop to full up
LF 13.75 inches
RF 12.50 inches this one does not droop as far as the left front, it sets 1 inch higher off the ground.
LR 11.00 inches
RR 11.00 inches"

"H" I read his statement and thought I would offer any assistance I could.
Lets say for a minute the limit ( ball joint bind) is not up travel but down travel as the up travel is limited by a couple of things a-arm hitting the frame and the bottoming out of the machine at full compression.
In the rear lets say the radius rod is set to short, the ball joint will bind reducing droop travel. There are so many question before an accurate answer can be given. Lets also say the toe is incorrect and the rear I-rod needs to be lengthened as well as the radius rod to gain droop travel. There are so many setting when you have a fully adjustable set of rear arm to get it right.

I'm not saying all it need is adjustment I do not know. What I am saying is I have played enough with that type of set up I may be able to assist.

With a rear fully adjustable set up you must consider:
axle plunge
axle cv angles
shock shaft length
shock angle
shock tower location
upright angles
upper arm ball joint mount angle and tilt and location related to the a-arms radius angle

Then factor in the radius rod frame mount placement or relocated placement
Then you can determine the I-rod and radius rod lengths

These two items: will effect the uprights ball joint bind points
upper arm ball joint mount angle and tilt and location related to the a-arms radius angle
Then factor in the radius rod frame mount placement or relocated placement



Moving the a-rams ball joint location rear wards will help in the bind locations. So if the a-rams are fully adjustable then maybe adding length to the front pivot and reducing the length of the rear pivot will move the fixed ball joint center pivot point rear ward. This will change the arc of the suspension. If you do this then the radius rod must be adjusted longer and the I-rods will need to be different lengths front to rear. This will allow the rear set up to have a greater arc and less bind then trying to move it straight up and down. This will also allow the suspension to travel better as it will tend to role over a bump than having it move up against the bump. What you have to watch out for is the static position at ride height and the camber and tow change.

Again I do not and have not seen one of his set ups in person so I have no clue on how its set to work. What I do have is some time working on this and have some working knowledge on the effect of change. Just trying to offer some assistance or would you rather I not and just bash Dave and make a bad situation worse.

If you would like I or you can remove my offer to help in any adjustments he was going to make and I go away and watch the bash fest. It does suck he paid a lot of money for a product that does not work and did not get what he paid for.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
scpilot66, wrote
"I have not adjusted anything, everything is exactly where Dave set up, adjusted and installed it. The only thing I have done is take the front spindles off to check the condition of the ball joints more thoroughly. I did put them back on to measure the amount of travel. I do not want to change anything Dave did at this point.

When I start checking to see if I can make Dave's kit work right myself, I will be checking and trying to straighten out everything.

Eighth and VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT to me, with no shock on I did a rough measurement of wheel travel.

Full droop to full up
LF 13.75 inches
RF 12.50 inches this one does not droop as far as the left front, it sets 1 inch higher off the ground.
LR 11.00 inches
RR 11.00 inches"

"H" I read his statement and thought I would offer any assistance I could.
Lets say for a minute the limit ( ball joint bind) is not up travel but down travel as the up travel is limited by a couple of things a-arm hitting the frame and the bottoming out of the machine at full compression.
In the rear lets say the radius rod is set to short, the ball joint will bind reducing droop travel. There are so many question before an accurate answer can be given. Lets also say the toe is incorrect and the rear I-rod needs to be lengthened as well as the radius rod to gain droop travel. There are so many setting when you have a fully adjustable set of rear arm to get it right.

I'm not saying all it need is adjustment I do not know. What I am saying is I have played enough with that type of set up I may be able to assist.

With a rear fully adjustable set up you must consider:
axle plunge
axle cv angles
shock shaft length
shock angle
shock tower location
upright angles
upper arm ball joint mount angle and tilt and location related to the a-arms radius angle

Then factor in the radius rod frame mount placement or relocated placement
Then you can determine the I-rod and radius rod lengths

These two items: will effect the uprights ball joint bind points
upper arm ball joint mount angle and tilt and location related to the a-arms radius angle
Then factor in the radius rod frame mount placement or relocated placement



Moving the a-rams ball joint location rear wards will help in the bind locations. So if the a-rams are fully adjustable then maybe adding length to the front pivot and reducing the length of the rear pivot will move the fixed ball joint center pivot point rear ward. This will change the arc of the suspension. If you do this then the radius rod must be adjusted longer and the I-rods will need to be different lengths front to rear. This will allow the rear set up to have a greater arc and less bind then trying to move it straight up and down. This will also allow the suspension to travel better as it will tend to role over a bump than having it move up against the bump. What you have to watch out for is the static position at ride height and the camber and tow change.

Again I do not and have not seen one of his set ups in person so I have no clue on how its set to work. What I do have is some time working on this and have some working knowledge on the effect of change. Just trying to offer some assistance or would you rather I not and just bash Dave and make a bad situation worse.

If you would like I or you can remove my offer to help in any adjustments he was going to make and I go away and watch the bash fest. It does suck he paid a lot of money for a product that does not work and did not get what he paid for.



Thanks for the reply it sounds like he needs to get Dave-Co to tell him what way to turn the wrenches next he is so far away from the 16" front and 14" rear he is suppose to have. I wouldn't know where to start I am a suspension dummy thought maybe their was a easy place for Steve to start I am sure he is wanting to finish this project soon, I imagine Dave-Co has baseline settings for all adjustments?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:06 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 3:01 am
Posts: 17
had a blast in my Dave-co pilot this weekend, not sure why all the hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRv8mgxUMU


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
J-CO wrote:
had a blast in my Dave-co pilot this weekend, not sure why all the hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRv8mgxUMU


Perhaps you should re-read this entire thread again then you might understand why this owner is still looking at a pile of parts and broken promises.

Kinda hard to evaluate a suspension in the condition this Pilot was left.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
J-CO wrote:
had a blast in my Dave-co pilot this weekend, not sure why all the hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRv8mgxUMU


Your Dave-Co's son,cant blame you for taking up for your dad but cmon man :shock:


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