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 Post subject: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
Haven't done anything with my Pilot yet, but I did finally get my block and rotating assembly back from my machinist yesterday afternoon after dang near 5 weeks. Went out this morning & got the short block assembled but still waiting on my heads to be finished. :-(

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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Did you paint the block or did the machine shop? Why not tape off the fuel pump and oil filter housing? I would clean the paint off with lacquer thinner to get a good seal.


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
My machinist painted the block. I will repaint it, because the shade is off & the coverage is awful.


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
What all did the machinist do, looking at your pictures its hard to tell, from my vantage point it does not look like it was line bored, cylinders don't look honed and the deck looks like it was not touched?

Be careful using a piston stop close to the edge of a piston above the ring grooves one wrong move (hitting the piston too hard) can actually fracture the top of the piston or weaken it and a chunk break off in the future.

What compression ratio did you choose at your elevation you can easily run 10:1 on pump gas?

This Engine going into the Yellow car?

Heads are factory?

Was reading the other day GM makes a 427 SB that produces 750HP now but they are like 12k lol


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
hoser wrote:
What all did the machinist do, looking at your pictures its hard to tell, from my vantage point it does not look like it was line bored, cylinders don't look honed and the deck looks like it was not touched?

Be careful using a piston stop close to the edge of a piston above the ring grooves one wrong move (hitting the piston too hard) can actually fracture the top of the piston or weaken it and a chunk break off in the future.

What compression ratio did you choose at your elevation you can easily run 10:1 on pump gas?

This Engine going into the Yellow car?

Heads are factory?

Was reading the other day GM makes a 427 SB that produces 750HP now but they are like 12k lol


Yes, its going into..

Image

I'm just basically going back with the same combo I've run in the car since 1981. Only real difference is I'm using a later 2 bolt block @ .060 over the previous .030 66 4bolt block. My reason for the swap was that early block takes a grooved cam and a canister style oil filter, and as silly as it sounds, all these years those two items have always kind of drove me nuts.


He just did the basics on the block, Vat, Bore, squared up the deck, cam bearings & freeze plugs. He polished the crank & rebalanced the rotating assembly since the new pistons are .060 & 19 grams heavier. It will get the factory 840 rectangular port heads & 163 intake back on it as I want it to still look bone stock & original when you open the hood.

here is the old 427 with the heads & intake assembled with the old block right before I tore it down to start over.
Image

The Engine is being built aside from the .060 bore, as a stock L-72 427. The compression will be factory 11.25 with my heads which is really too much for todays $hity gas but this is the combo i've always ran in the car & with a conservative tune I never had any problems. The only other real difference is I am going to try one of Comp cams s Nostalgia Grinds over the factory solid L-72 solid I have alway ran. Still going run a solid, but this cam claims to make power from 1800 - 6500 which on paper sounds great over the old cam that made power from 3200 - 6500, although low end was never an issue as you could blow the tires away if you stabbed it at 30mph anyway. lol.. But the new cam should hopefully make a bit more vacuum which will help with the hidden head lights and it has a tighter lash and in theory should be a tad easier on the valve train.

I was carful with the piston stop. Just used it to establish TDC (Top Dead Center) and get me degree wheel set up. My piston stop wouldn't reach all the way across the cylinder so I gad to do it that way. When assembling an Engine I always degree the cam with just one piston so it is easier to spin it over and you don't need to use as much strength trying to muscle it around and have good control over it.

Yeah they are making some stupid horse power with these stroker kits, I originally was going to build this as a 496 and had ordered a 4340 Scat Rotating assembly. After a month of getting the run around I pulled the plug and decided to just go back with the combo I had for half the price. I was always pleased with how it ran & as stupid as it sounds, I don't really care to make it any quicker, I've worked too hard on the car over the last few years to go run the snot out of it now. I just want when I get into the car & turn the key, & have it take me back to when I was a kid out terrorizing women & children with it. :-)
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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Love that wrinkle wall picture!

Even with the high compression at your altitude you will be ok with pump gas?


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
rarerat wrote:
hoser wrote:
What all did the machinist do, looking at your pictures its hard to tell, from my vantage point it does not look like it was line bored, cylinders don't look honed and the deck looks like it was not touched?

Be careful using a piston stop close to the edge of a piston above the ring grooves one wrong move (hitting the piston too hard) can actually fracture the top of the piston or weaken it and a chunk break off in the future.

What compression ratio did you choose at your elevation you can easily run 10:1 on pump gas?

This Engine going into the Yellow car?

Heads are factory?

Was reading the other day GM makes a 427 SB that produces 750HP now but they are like 12k lol


Yes, its going into..

Image

I'm just basically going back with the same combo I've run in the car since 1981. Only real difference is I'm using a later 2 bolt block @ .060 over the previous .030 66 4bolt block. My reason for the swap was that early block takes a grooved cam and a canister style oil filter, and as silly as it sounds, all these years those two items have always kind of drove me nuts.


He just did the basics on the block, Vat, Bore, squared up the deck, cam bearings & freeze plugs. He polished the crank & rebalanced the rotating assembly since the new pistons are .060 & 19 grams heavier. It will get the factory 840 rectangular port heads & 163 intake back on it as I want it to still look bone stock & original when you open the hood.

here is the old 427 with the heads & intake assembled with the old block right before I tore it down to start over.
Image

The Engine is being built aside from the .060 bore, as a stock L-72 427. The compression will be factory 11.25 with my heads which is really too much for todays $hity gas but this is the combo i've always ran in the car & with a conservative tune I never had any problems. The only other real difference is I am going to try one of Comp cams s Nostalgia Grinds over the factory solid L-72 solid I have alway ran. Still going run a solid, but this cam claims to make power from 1800 - 6500 which on paper sounds great over the old cam that made power from 3200 - 6500, although low end was never an issue as you could blow the tires away if you stabbed it at 30mph anyway. lol.. But the new cam should hopefully make a bit more vacuum which will help with the hidden head lights and it has a tighter lash and in theory should be a tad easier on the valve train.

I was carful with the piston stop. Just used it to establish TDC (Top Dead Center) and get me degree wheel set up. My piston stop wouldn't reach all the way across the cylinder so I gad to do it that way. When assembling an Engine I always degree the cam with just one piston so it is easier to spin it over and you don't need to use as much strength trying to muscle it around and have good control over it.

Yeah they are making some stupid horse power with these stroker kits, I originally was going to build this as a 496 and had ordered a 4340 Scat Rotating assembly. After a month of getting the run around I pulled the plug and decided to just go back with the combo I had for half the price. I was always pleased with how it ran & as stupid as it sounds, I don't really care to make it any quicker, I've worked too hard on the car over the last few years to go run the snot out of it now. I just want when I get into the car & turn the key, & have it take me back to when I was a kid out terrorizing women & children with it. :-)
Image



I sure love that car!!! We always had camaro's growing up wish I had one now but I need another toy like I need a hole in my head.


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
afastcar wrote:


I sure love that car!!! We always had camaro's growing up wish I had one now but I need another toy like I need a hole in my head.


Thank you, it was my first car that I drove all through High School. I'm very thankfully I've been able to hold onto it all these years.


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
rarerat wrote:
afastcar wrote:


I sure love that car!!! We always had camaro's growing up wish I had one now but I need another toy like I need a hole in my head.


Thank you, it was my first car that I drove all through High School. I'm very thankfully I've been able to hold onto it all these years.



I envy you and the car I hope you have it for the rest of your life.

Any guesstimates on the HP and torque once the Engine is done?


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
hoser wrote:
rarerat wrote:
afastcar wrote:


I sure love that car!!! We always had camaro's growing up wish I had one now but I need another toy like I need a hole in my head.


Thank you, it was my first car that I drove all through High School. I'm very thankfully I've been able to hold onto it all these years.



I envy you and the car I hope you have it for the rest of your life.

Any guesstimates on the HP and torque once the Engine is done?


Thank you sir.

Not really, I would only be guessing without a trip to the dyno. An L-72 is factory rated at 450 horse in a Vette and 425 in everything else. I have had some bowl work done on the heads in the past and added 188 exhaust valves, but honestly with this new camshaft it's really anyones guess. lol..


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Gorgeous, very very nice.


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
scpilot66 wrote:
Gorgeous, very very nice.


Thank you sir


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
I finally got my heads back, so I finished assembling the 427 this afternoon.. Just need to figure out what I am going to do for headers and buy a clutch & pressure plate and it's ready to drop in. I am going back with a Tremec TKO 600 this time so it should be a real pleasure to drive down the highway, no more 3700 rpm to run 75. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?



Yes, it was at about 146 cold. I took it out and rode it this morning and tried to do a plug chop, then realized all the plugs I had with me were old used plugs so other than a fun ride I think it was a bust. The pilot is real lazy off idle with a 50 slow jet so I'm thinking I may need to go down a bit. It had a 40 slow jet in the carb when I bought it and I run a 45 in all the other machines so in my twisted way of thinking I tried to buy a 48 slow jet for it as a starting point but they didn't have one. :-( I have never seen egt temps so low the highest temp I saw at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for a long run was 1104. :shock: My other Engine with the stock carb would go hit 1300 from time to time, the plug chop showed the jetting was spot on.

Anyhow ,I did a compression test after about 30 minutes of raising hell ;-) and it is now showing 149-150 so I'm really happy I didn't hurt it the first time out. :-) I need to run to the Honda Shop and get a few new plugs so I can go try my plug chops again. You never told me what slow jet you are running and where you have the air screw set too? So far, my egt #'s are low compared to the other Engine combo all the way though..


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?



Yes, it was at about 146 cold. I took it out and rode it this morning and tried to do a plug chop, then realized all the plugs I had with me were old used plugs so other than a fun ride I think it was a bust. The pilot is real lazy off idle with a 50 slow jet so I'm thinking I may need to go down a bit. It had a 40 slow jet in the carb when I bought it and I run a 45 in all the other machines so in my twisted way of thinking I tried to buy a 48 slow jet for it as a starting point but they didn't have one. :-( I have never seen egt temps so low the highest temp I saw at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for a long run was 1104. :shock: My other Engine with the stock carb would go hit 1300 from time to time, the plug chop showed the jetting was spot on.

Anyhow ,I did a compression test after about 30 minutes of raising hell ;-) and it is now showing 149-150 so I'm really happy I didn't hurt it the first time out. :-) I need to run to the Honda Shop and get a few new plugs so I can go try my plug chops again. You never told me what slow jet you are running and where you have the air screw set too? So far, my egt #'s are low compared to the other Engine combo all the way though..


On my 90 pilot I have a keihin 39mm pwk carb with a 60 slow jett, 168 main, needle clip set at 2nd groove from top, I believe the air screw is 1.25-1.5 turns out.
I also run the high flow air filter kit, didn't want to say it as I am sure I will hear how bad that setup is;(

Sounds like you will have her purring in no time:()


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?



Yes, it was at about 146 cold. I took it out and rode it this morning and tried to do a plug chop, then realized all the plugs I had with me were old used plugs so other than a fun ride I think it was a bust. The pilot is real lazy off idle with a 50 slow jet so I'm thinking I may need to go down a bit. It had a 40 slow jet in the carb when I bought it and I run a 45 in all the other machines so in my twisted way of thinking I tried to buy a 48 slow jet for it as a starting point but they didn't have one. :-( I have never seen egt temps so low the highest temp I saw at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for a long run was 1104. :shock: My other Engine with the stock carb would go hit 1300 from time to time, the plug chop showed the jetting was spot on.

Anyhow ,I did a compression test after about 30 minutes of raising hell ;-) and it is now showing 149-150 so I'm really happy I didn't hurt it the first time out. :-) I need to run to the Honda Shop and get a few new plugs so I can go try my plug chops again. You never told me what slow jet you are running and where you have the air screw set too? So far, my egt #'s are low compared to the other Engine combo all the way though..


On my 90 pilot I have a keihin 39mm pwk carb with a 60 slow jett, 168 main, needle clip set at 2nd groove from top, I believe the air screw is 1.25-1.5 turns out.
I also run the high flow air filter kit, didn't want to say it as I am sure I will hear how bad that setup is;(

Sounds like you will have her purring in no time:()


Thank you sir,
I went to the Honda shop and bought 3 more plugs and tried to get a 166 main but they claimed Keihin jets skip from 168 to 165 so I bought the 165 also. I came home and set the air screw to 1 3/4 turns and moved the needle to the second groove, I wanted to do another plug chop before swapping the main. It runs better through the mid range and I am now getting egt temps in the 1230's in the 1/4 - 3/4 throttle range. With the changes, the top end temps went up to 1130 but it still seems fat to me. I did another full throttle plug chop and the plug looks a touch rich but I am thinking a 165 may be to lean now on the top end?? I still have a small stumble right off idle but it cleans up fairly quick. I need to do some low end and mid range plug chops but my gut tells me it's still fat at idle to 1/8 throttle.
It's getting there, I little more tinkering and I think it will be good to go.... :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
Played around with the Pilot a little more this morning..

Dropped the slow jet from a 50 to a 45 and that took about 90% of the bog out off idle, it will hit the tires pretty hard now if you stab it off idle. I may open the air screw up another 1/4 turn and see if that will get the rest of the hesitation out next.. I also dropped the main to a 165 from a 168 and did another plug chop. I honestly expected it to be lean but I don't think it is. The Engine sounds like it is struggles a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) through deep sand but on hard pack, it flat gets with the program. :-) I also have the no rev CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) on it now and I saw rpm in the 6950 range, I cant really remember what the other Engine ran, but I want to saw the highest I remember is 6800?? Does that sound about right??

I have now ran about 2 gallons of gas though it with the scared up piston Engine and compression is still in the 146-150 range depending on how hard I can pull the cord, so I am feeling better about this Engine. :-)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14596


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?



Yes, it was at about 146 cold. I took it out and rode it this morning and tried to do a plug chop, then realized all the plugs I had with me were old used plugs so other than a fun ride I think it was a bust. The pilot is real lazy off idle with a 50 slow jet so I'm thinking I may need to go down a bit. It had a 40 slow jet in the carb when I bought it and I run a 45 in all the other machines so in my twisted way of thinking I tried to buy a 48 slow jet for it as a starting point but they didn't have one. :-( I have never seen egt temps so low the highest temp I saw at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for a long run was 1104. :shock: My other Engine with the stock carb would go hit 1300 from time to time, the plug chop showed the jetting was spot on.

Anyhow ,I did a compression test after about 30 minutes of raising hell ;-) and it is now showing 149-150 so I'm really happy I didn't hurt it the first time out. :-) I need to run to the Honda Shop and get a few new plugs so I can go try my plug chops again. You never told me what slow jet you are running and where you have the air screw set too? So far, my egt #'s are low compared to the other Engine combo all the way though..


On my 90 pilot I have a keihin 39mm pwk carb with a 60 slow jett, 168 main, needle clip set at 2nd groove from top, I believe the air screw is 1.25-1.5 turns out.
I also run the high flow air filter kit, didn't want to say it as I am sure I will hear how bad that setup is;(

Sounds like you will have her purring in no time:()


Thank you sir,
I went to the Honda shop and bought 3 more plugs and tried to get a 166 main but they claimed Keihin jets skip from 168 to 165 so I bought the 165 also. I came home and set the air screw to 1 3/4 turns and moved the needle to the second groove, I wanted to do another plug chop before swapping the main. It runs better through the mid range and I am now getting egt temps in the 1230's in the 1/4 - 3/4 throttle range. With the changes, the top end temps went up to 1130 but it still seems fat to me. I did another full throttle plug chop and the plug looks a touch rich but I am thinking a 165 may be to lean now on the top end?? I still have a small stumble right off idle but it cleans up fairly quick. I need to do some low end and mid range plug chops but my gut tells me it's still fat at idle to 1/8 throttle.
It's getting there, I little more tinkering and I think it will be good to go.... :-)


If your a little fat on the bottom end does removing the lid on the air box correct that condition?


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
rarerat wrote:
Played around with the Pilot a little more this morning..

Dropped the slow jet from a 50 to a 45 and that took about 90% of the bog out off idle, it will hit the tires pretty hard now if you stab it off idle. I may open the air screw up another 1/4 turn and see if that will get the rest of the hesitation out next.. I also dropped the main to a 165 from a 168 and did another plug chop. I honestly expected it to be lean but I don't think it is. The Engine sounds like it is struggles a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) through deep sand but on hard pack, it flat gets with the program. :-) I also have the no rev CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) on it now and I saw rpm in the 6950 range, I cant really remember what the other Engine ran, but I want to saw the highest I remember is 6800?? Does that sound about right??

I have now ran about 2 gallons of gas though it with the scared up piston Engine and compression is still in the 146-150 range depending on how hard I can pull the cord, so I am feeling better about this Engine. :-)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14596


When I was running my full mod Pilot Engine and hammered the throttle WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it jumped right up to 7400 RPM and sometimes I seen 7800 RPMs just depended on the traction conditions, humidity and air temp but you could count on them numbers all the time .

If I really slowly increased the RPM off idle until I felt the clutch just starting to grab enough you knew it was going to do something I usually seen 5000 to 5100 RPM, your NOT suppose to do this creeping up on the belt shortens the life but its what I do to see what my engagement RPM is, I also did this when I raced so the Engine was right their in the power then the green flag flinched the slightest little bit, I was keeping the Engine "on the clutch".

Your Engine will last a lot longer at the lower RPMs than it will at higher RPM's do the math and see just how many more times the piston will go up and down in a minute at the higher RPM's.

You almost need to test your Engine at the higher RPM's and decide if the fun factor is worth the shorter Engine life, I took my full mod Engine to 8100 RPM's once and that sucker hauled ass but I could not get the clutches to up shift fast enough the Engine was screaming all the time, traction was also a issue so I dialed it back down to what I had run for years, at the 7400 to 7800 level I was staying side by side with the CR500 race ported ATVR Pilots, if I was racing on a regular basis or felt the need to prove a point I would have spent more time and money to correct the up shifting thing .


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
hoser wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Pilot bird wrote:
Looking badass sir!

Boy you sure keep busy;)



Thank you my friend. :-)

Yes sir, I try too.. I also finished the Engine swap on the Pilot today. Haven't ridden it yet, but did one heat cycle and then had to pull the exhaust back off and put some silicone on the pipe where it attaches to the cylinder. It was spitting a little premix oil out of the joint. I hope to try and take it for a quick ride this weekend sometime & check the jetting. :-)


Does your pilot have the Engine from the most recent acquisition now? What was your compression at after putting the Engine back together?



Yes, it was at about 146 cold. I took it out and rode it this morning and tried to do a plug chop, then realized all the plugs I had with me were old used plugs so other than a fun ride I think it was a bust. The pilot is real lazy off idle with a 50 slow jet so I'm thinking I may need to go down a bit. It had a 40 slow jet in the carb when I bought it and I run a 45 in all the other machines so in my twisted way of thinking I tried to buy a 48 slow jet for it as a starting point but they didn't have one. :-( I have never seen egt temps so low the highest temp I saw at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for a long run was 1104. :shock: My other Engine with the stock carb would go hit 1300 from time to time, the plug chop showed the jetting was spot on.

Anyhow ,I did a compression test after about 30 minutes of raising hell ;-) and it is now showing 149-150 so I'm really happy I didn't hurt it the first time out. :-) I need to run to the Honda Shop and get a few new plugs so I can go try my plug chops again. You never told me what slow jet you are running and where you have the air screw set too? So far, my egt #'s are low compared to the other Engine combo all the way though..


On my 90 pilot I have a keihin 39mm pwk carb with a 60 slow jett, 168 main, needle clip set at 2nd groove from top, I believe the air screw is 1.25-1.5 turns out.
I also run the high flow air filter kit, didn't want to say it as I am sure I will hear how bad that setup is;(

Sounds like you will have her purring in no time:()


Thank you sir,
I went to the Honda shop and bought 3 more plugs and tried to get a 166 main but they claimed Keihin jets skip from 168 to 165 so I bought the 165 also. I came home and set the air screw to 1 3/4 turns and moved the needle to the second groove, I wanted to do another plug chop before swapping the main. It runs better through the mid range and I am now getting egt temps in the 1230's in the 1/4 - 3/4 throttle range. With the changes, the top end temps went up to 1130 but it still seems fat to me. I did another full throttle plug chop and the plug looks a touch rich but I am thinking a 165 may be to lean now on the top end?? I still have a small stumble right off idle but it cleans up fairly quick. I need to do some low end and mid range plug chops but my gut tells me it's still fat at idle to 1/8 throttle.
It's getting there, I little more tinkering and I think it will be good to go.... :-)


If your a little fat on the bottom end does removing the lid on the air box correct that condition?


WOW talk about a brain fart, In my infinite wisdom it never occurred to me to try it. You have my permission to hit me in the back of the head the next time you are out this way. lol...


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 Post subject: Re: 427 BBC Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: New Mexico
hoser wrote:
rarerat wrote:
Played around with the Pilot a little more this morning..

Dropped the slow jet from a 50 to a 45 and that took about 90% of the bog out off idle, it will hit the tires pretty hard now if you stab it off idle. I may open the air screw up another 1/4 turn and see if that will get the rest of the hesitation out next.. I also dropped the main to a 165 from a 168 and did another plug chop. I honestly expected it to be lean but I don't think it is. The Engine sounds like it is struggles a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) through deep sand but on hard pack, it flat gets with the program. :-) I also have the no rev CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) on it now and I saw rpm in the 6950 range, I cant really remember what the other Engine ran, but I want to saw the highest I remember is 6800?? Does that sound about right??

I have now ran about 2 gallons of gas though it with the scared up piston Engine and compression is still in the 146-150 range depending on how hard I can pull the cord, so I am feeling better about this Engine. :-)
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14596


When I was running my full mod Pilot Engine and hammered the throttle WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it jumped right up to 7400 RPM and sometimes I seen 7800 RPMs just depended on the traction conditions, humidity and air temp but you could count on them numbers all the time .

If I really slowly increased the RPM off idle until I felt the clutch just starting to grab enough you knew it was going to do something I usually seen 5000 to 5100 RPM, your NOT suppose to do this creeping up on the belt shortens the life but its what I do to see what my engagement RPM is, I also did this when I raced so the Engine was right their in the power then the green flag flinched the slightest little bit, I was keeping the Engine "on the clutch".

Your Engine will last a lot longer at the lower RPMs than it will at higher RPM's do the math and see just how many more times the piston will go up and down in a minute at the higher RPM's.

You almost need to test your Engine at the higher RPM's and decide if the fun factor is worth the shorter Engine life, I took my full mod Engine to 8100 RPM's once and that sucker hauled ass but I could not get the clutches to up shift fast enough the Engine was screaming all the time, traction was also a issue so I dialed it back down to what I had run for years, at the 7400 to 7800 level I was staying side by side with the CR500 race ported ATVR Pilots, if I was racing on a regular basis or felt the need to prove a point I would have spent more time and money to correct the up shifting thing .


Thank you sir I appreciate the info.

I may drop the main jet another step and see what happens, the WOT (Wide Open Throttle) plug chop still looks a bit rich to me and see what happens. The egt temps are still under what I was expecting also. The old Engine with the stock carb was very predictable and the egt temps where in the upper 1270's to 1300 most of the time. Even with the 165 I am still only seeing temps in the 1130 -1150 range at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and the smoke ring still looks wide to me?? This carb in the parts Pilot had a 40 slow jet :shock: and I thought that would be way to lean so that's why I started with the 50 as a base line. I am now thinking maybe I should have just left the 40 in it. Right now aside from a slight bog right off idle it pulls really hard pretty much all the way through but in the deep sand it almost sounds like it is struggling a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle), its moving but it just has that sound if that makes any sense.

Another dumb question.. I wonder how much more air it will get with the lid off vs my dual pre filter?


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