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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Yes, Have gotton caught up a little on work and had a day to spend in the garage. I had left off with cleaning up cylinder and "H" posting some data for reading on heads. If not read, please go back and read. Reading will help follow data posted. Quick notes: I have degreed jug and cleaned up cylinder. I have milled old head (#1)for clean up and milled new head (#2) for comparason during discussion.

The first part will deal with CR ( compression ratios) and what effects it and how. CR is different from cranking compression. Cranking compression is what most of us deal with. In this case both heads were milled and #1 reworked to bring both up to the same cranking compression with a base line of 180lb's open intake ( no intake componets) and exhaust , cranking rpm of 1200 + or - 100 rpm with the case pumped with fogging oil( fogging oil will help seal rings and lube crank train and usally add 5 lb's to cranking compression).

CR is important in relation to power out put at temputure. Too high and power will drop as the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) tempature increases( leaving chamber shape out for know). To low and power out put is also lost. If you read the "H" posting the wording flash and sustained horsepower was mentioned. I alwasy felt a good analogy would be the story of the HRabbit and the Turtle. Flash is fast but only for short periods and more fickel. Sustained will usally out preform and maitain for longer periods. What effect falsh? ambient temputre, different fuels, combustin chamber exhaust port heights, intact resonce,and heat range of plugs ect.

The fist pic will show some CR data using Tobeys new motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )). We all have heard that once you get to around 11.5 : 1, you need better fuel or maybe past 170 lb's. that's just the general rule. I pose this, can a 180 lb cranking compression run pump gas? Generaly pump gas run 87,89,91,93 RON. Which is best for your Engine? It dependes on CR, cumbustion chamber cranking compression ect. See the point. You just don't mill a head raising cranking compression run higher octane fuel with out taking in combustion chamber, Cr and exhaust port into account( These just the main ones others also need to be factured in).

Yes a bump in cranking compression will help most machines but what have you changed in the process. Now your squish has been effected. By chance did you bother to check this clearence. Lets say your running a big bore with stock head and now you mill head The squish may now be too tight and piston damage may accure. As the bore increases the dia of the head squish dia will also need to be maintained and you mill off material. This also effects CR ( the volume in cc in chamber). Rember you higher cranking compression also increases thermal load that need to be wicked into the head as not to over heat piston. The squish band increaing trapped mix will also need to be increased as not to over heat piston to help compasate for the thermal load. By doing this the cc in the chamber has know increased changing your CR.

So is it the cranking compression or the change in CR that requires different gade of fuel or both. I'll stop there for know and let you read a while and think about it. Wonder what I could do to offset this effect. Maybe raise the exhaut port a few degrees lowering the CR back down to base line levels.


Attachments:
Resize of Head CR 3-08 motor.jpg
Resize of Head CR 3-08 motor.jpg [ 59.14 KiB | Viewed 1494 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Head CR (V1 + V2) / V2

Base line CR

V-1 V-2 V-1+V-2 Cr
displacment cc's Head chamber total =
head #1 397 34 431 12.68 :1

head #2 397 30 427 14.23 :1


New cylinder: Exhaust port correction: full close to TDC (Top Dead Center) in Degrees


Degrees % of bore Displacment cc,s V-1 corrected V-2 V-1+V-2 Cr
Head chamber total
head #1 90 0.5000 397 198.5000 34 232.5000 6.84 :1

head #2 90 0.5000 397 198.5000 30 228.5000 7.62 :1


cc,s in degrees cc's per degrees
198.5000 2.2056
New cylinder: clean up ex port: Exhaust port correction: full close to TDC (Top Dead Center) in Degrees


Degrees % of bore Displacment cc,s V-1 corrected V-2 V-1+V-2 Cr
Head chamber total
head #1 87 0.4833 397 191.8833333 34 225.8833333 6.64 :1

head #2 87 0.4833 397 191.8833333 30 221.8833333 7.40 :1


cc,s in degrees cc's per degrees
191.8833 2.2056


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
A little head data used in CR data.


Head work
comp milled chamber cross section chamber cc head cc

#1 90 old 180 lb .0100 in 2.3215 34 47
#2 90 new 180 lb .080 in 2.138 30 52



squish angle,intake squish angle exhaust squish intake squish exhaust
#1 #2 #1 #2 length thickness length thickness
#1 90 old 15 10 15 10 0.375 0.053 0.7225 0.0625
#2 90 new 22 N/A 18 N/A 0.268 0.07 0.534 0.08


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
some pics


Attachments:
File comment: her damaged head milled to clean
90 #1 milled.020.jpg
90 #1 milled.020.jpg [ 72.41 KiB | Viewed 1502 times ]
File comment: a little clean and match to piston for data
90 #1 first rework.jpg
90 #1 first rework.jpg [ 77.49 KiB | Viewed 1502 times ]
File comment: good enough for cc and data
90 #1 milled and cut ready to cc.jpg
90 #1 milled and cut ready to cc.jpg [ 70.76 KiB | Viewed 1502 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
more


Attachments:
File comment: 90 #2 new milled .080
90 #2 milled .080 and un cut .jpg
90 #2 milled .080 and un cut .jpg [ 65.69 KiB | Viewed 1501 times ]
90 #1 combustion chamber cc.jpg
90 #1 combustion chamber cc.jpg [ 72.54 KiB | Viewed 1501 times ]
90 #1 total head cc using cc plate.jpg
90 #1 total head cc using cc plate.jpg [ 86.12 KiB | Viewed 1501 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
more fun.


Attachments:
90 #2 cc ed using plate.jpg
90 #2 cc ed using plate.jpg [ 64.25 KiB | Viewed 1500 times ]
90 #1 squish check.jpg
90 #1 squish check.jpg [ 70.6 KiB | Viewed 1500 times ]
90 #1 inside look on squish clearence.jpg
90 #1 inside look on squish clearence.jpg [ 73.14 KiB | Viewed 1500 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
not done yet.


Attachments:
90 #2 squish inside look.jpg
90 #2 squish inside look.jpg [ 55.12 KiB | Viewed 1499 times ]
90 #1 milled and cut ( 180 lb ).jpg
90 #1 milled and cut ( 180 lb ).jpg [ 69.24 KiB | Viewed 1499 times ]
90 #2 mileed un cut ( 180 lb ).jpg
90 #2 mileed un cut ( 180 lb ).jpg [ 69.52 KiB | Viewed 1499 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Pics of stud removal tool . These do not damage studs in any way and are 1/2 drive and can be used with tourge wrench. Yes I used old pre torgued gasket for squish check theres a big diff in new to old and why waste new one for data.


Attachments:
Sockets.jpg
Sockets.jpg [ 70.34 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]
stud sockets.jpg
stud sockets.jpg [ 70.4 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]
studd emovel and install socket.jpg
studd emovel and install socket.jpg [ 66 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
What was your squish clearance?

You need to make sure you get the ends of the solder all the way out touching the cylinder wall before compressing.

I downloaded your BMP file and converted it to a JPG so its a lot smaller now :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
I'll try this screen print saved as j-peg. The #1 head has a circle drawn that represents the head gasket dia. The #2 head still has recessed lip on it so I was not as concerend. The squish on the stock head is so bad That it will need to be re milled and cut.When I go to rework that head It will be at the outer edge. If I was to run 180 lb and pump gas with that head It would surly take out the piston in short order.


Attachments:
File comment: Squish #'s
Squish #'s 3-08 motor.JPG
Squish #'s 3-08 motor.JPG [ 180.45 KiB | Viewed 1401 times ]
90 #2 squish clearence intake side.jpg
90 #2 squish clearence intake side.jpg [ 55.98 KiB | Viewed 1477 times ]
90 #2 squish clearence exhaust side.jpg
90 #2 squish clearence exhaust side.jpg [ 58.92 KiB | Viewed 1477 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Enlarged #'s


Attachments:
File comment: Hope this is readable
Squish #'s enlarged.JPG
Squish #'s enlarged.JPG [ 183.95 KiB | Viewed 1397 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Looks like you spilled some red beer into the domes??? Shouldn't be so wasteful!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
It's the budweiser from Belgum. Any body know where I can get an American beer. I feel they should take the A off the can and replace it with B and call it Belgum Bush. I used food coloring in the flask No not my skieing flask just my 100 cc flask to make it easier to see.

I got to see some video of your son why at was at my daughters in Tennesse. Sure looks like he is haven fun. Dad sounded pretty proud as well. Nice job.


Attachments:
100 cc flask.jpg
100 cc flask.jpg [ 32.12 KiB | Viewed 1447 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
OK I was worried you were drinking KOOL AID???
When I get some time to put my ody back together he wants to come check out Lil Sahara...


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