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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7910
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I think you welded that divider to close to the sparkplug hole.
Be sure to pressure test the new water system BEFORE you put it all together.
I had three small leaks and they were a bitch to seal. Had to cut the head in half again to seal it.
You can see the weld all around the middle of the head.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
I think you welded that divider to close to the sparkplug hole.
Be sure to pressure test the new water system BEFORE you put it all together.
I had three small leaks and they were a bitch to seal. Had to cut the head in half again to seal it.
You can see the weld all around the middle of the head.

Your build is looking good, I haven't had time to touch mine in for several day's. But hopefully I will get something done this weekend. As for the divider, I left it long on purpose so I could cut it back when I install the tube for the plug. (or that is the plan LOL) But thanks for pointing it out. Anybody can make a mistake when they are doing something new, it is typical for me....
Why did you decide to leave your head bolts inside of the head?
How are you going to stop them from rusting?
Call me scared but I decided to use tubing around mine so I could check them from time to time, mine loosened up over the exhaust port is how I fried the piston. After I run it through the heat cycles I plan on rechecking the torque and from time to time rechecking them. Maybe I will get something going on it by the weekend, wish I was as far along as you. Just takes time. Keep me up to day on how yours is coming along, and anything I should look out for or change. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7910
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
I think you welded that divider to close to the sparkplug hole.
Be sure to pressure test the new water system BEFORE you put it all together.
I had three small leaks and they were a bitch to seal. Had to cut the head in half again to seal it.
You can see the weld all around the middle of the head.

Your build is looking good, I haven't had time to touch mine in for several day's. But hopefully I will get something done this weekend. As for the divider, I left it long on purpose so I could cut it back when I install the tube for the plug. (or that is the plan LOL) But thanks for pointing it out. Anybody can make a mistake when they are doing something new, it is typical for me....
Why did you decide to leave your head bolts inside of the head?
How are you going to stop them from rusting?
Call me scared but I decided to use tubing around mine so I could check them from time to time, mine loosened up over the exhaust port is how I fried the piston. After I run it through the heat cycles I plan on rechecking the torque and from time to time rechecking them. Maybe I will get something going on it by the weekend, wish I was as far along as you. Just takes time. Keep me up to day on how yours is coming along, and anything I should look out for or change. Thanks Billy


1) I left my bolts inside because that was the easiest way. No other real reason. You will find that you will have leaks after you weld it up. I had a real issue with the leak around the sparkplug tube. I had to cut the head in half again to fix. The more tubes you have the more problems you will have. 2) I won't be running straight water. I will be using the green antifreeze coolant. It is for aluminum. That should help with the rust issue a bit. It will take years to rust through bolts anyway, and by then it's time for a re and re.
3) I pre-crushed my head gasket by torqueing it down then re-torqueing it and put blue Loctite on the threads. What I should have done is run Engine to warm it up without putting coolant in it and then re-torque. Then add coolant but I boo boo . Oh well let see how it goes. I am also running the 11mm double lip seal for the first time. It's all an experiment anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I agree, all of the tubes are a hassle but I figure why not keep it to where I can get to them. Once it is finished all of the leaks and work will be like a Bad dream. I started building up around the head bolt areas today during lunch then when I got home I milled about half of them down level with the nut surface so I will have a decent place to Tig the tubes to. This weekend I plan on getting all of the tubes ready to weld on Monday and also start on the disassembly of the Engine. How did you split the cases when you tore yours down? I don't want to break one of the sides or warp something. Did you ever figure out what radiator you were going to use? I read where you were asking about a trans cooler, I have a heater core that I am going to try to use. It is a good bit bigger than a cooler tank but not to big. will post some pics this weekend. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7910
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
I agree, all of the tubes are a hassle but I figure why not keep it to where I can get to them. Once it is finished all of the leaks and work will be like a Bad dream. I started building up around the head bolt areas today during lunch then when I got home I milled about half of them down level with the nut surface so I will have a decent place to Tig the tubes to. This weekend I plan on getting all of the tubes ready to weld on Monday and also start on the disassembly of the Engine. How did you split the cases when you tore yours down? I don't want to break one of the sides or warp something. Did you ever figure out what radiator you were going to use? I read where you were asking about a trans cooler, I have a heater core that I am going to try to use. It is a good bit bigger than a cooler tank but not to big. will post some pics this weekend. Thanks Billy


I went with a rad from a Honda Civic (no fan) and it's aluminum. I want real cooling.
It's $90can. Mounted it behind my head.
My cases came apart easy when I did the Engine tear down.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I finally got to get in the garage today, made a line up shaft for the tubing around the head bolts. Also got the tubes cut, still have to trim them to fit on the head. I had to cut the divider off so I could weld the spark plug tub on and mainly so I could weld the other tubes on. Maybe early next week. Thanks Billy.


Attachments:
File comment: Ugly but fits good. The tube will be taller, the one here is just a test fit.
photo 1 (1).JPG
photo 1 (1).JPG [ 84.12 KiB | Viewed 2003 times ]
File comment: Good to have drops around, never know when you may need one.
photo 2 (1).JPG
photo 2 (1).JPG [ 45.15 KiB | Viewed 2003 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I got all of my tubes welded on yesterday and so far found only one leak. I have made a template for the top of the head so I will try and get it cut out tomorrow and maybe get it spot welded on. But not sure. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
Ok pulled Engine out today and started tearing it down. I started on the clutch side, made sure that everything had witness marks. But when I went to remove the crank gear I found that I could move it and the lock ring by hand back and forth. That didn't seem good to me but if anyone has ran into this before let me know please. Also when I split the cases and pulled the balancer out the inner bearing came out with it and then fell off. Should this not be a press fit on the bearing? Once again if this is common would someone let me know please. May try to get the mag. side disassembled after church tomorrow.
I also started on cutting the cylinder fins cut off (Thank God for cutting wheels for a grinder). Any advice on the rebuild will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
Ok pulled Engine out today and started tearing it down. I started on the clutch side, made sure that everything had witness marks. But when I went to remove the crank gear I found that I could move it and the lock ring by hand back and forth. That didn't seem good to me but if anyone has ran into this before let me know please. Also when I split the cases and pulled the balancer out the inner bearing came out with it and then fell off. Should this not be a press fit on the bearing? Once again if this is common would someone let me know please. May try to get the mag. side disassembled after church tomorrow.
I also started on cutting the cylinder fins cut off (Thank God for cutting wheels for a grinder). Any advice on the rebuild will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Billy


All bearings in the cases should have a resistance fit or press fit Lee might be able to tell you the official required fit, loctite makes a bearing retainer just for this you will have to search for it I forget the exact number, maybe Speedchaser remembers?

https://www.google.com/#q=loctite+bearing+retainer

This has been discussed before https://www.google.com/search?q=style+g ... S:official
Pictures please....


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
Ok pulled Engine out today and started tearing it down. I started on the clutch side, made sure that everything had witness marks. But when I went to remove the crank gear I found that I could move it and the lock ring by hand back and forth. That didn't seem good to me but if anyone has ran into this before let me know please. Also when I split the cases and pulled the balancer out the inner bearing came out with it and then fell off. Should this not be a press fit on the bearing? Once again if this is common would someone let me know please. May try to get the mag. side disassembled after church tomorrow.
I also started on cutting the cylinder fins cut off (Thank God for cutting wheels for a grinder). Any advice on the rebuild will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Billy


All bearings in the cases should have a resistance fit or press fit Lee might be able to tell you the official required fit, loctite makes a bearing retainer just for this you will have to search for it I forget the exact number, maybe Speedchaser remembers?

https://www.google.com/#q=loctite+bearing+retainer

This has been discussed before https://www.google.com/search?q=style+g ... S:official
Pictures please....

Thanks hoser I thought so and I have read on hear where you have used it before or told someone about using it. I will do a search for it for sure. Also I like the way you have the home page and the search area. I will get some pics as soon as I get it cleaned up so it can be seen. Like always Thanks for the help. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3295
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Loctite 620 Retaining compound. i have used it on front hub bearings, worked really well for me. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5467&p=45665&hilit=loctite#p45665. Heres the Loctite cutsheets http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/620-EN.PDF. Looks like it lasted 1000 hours in motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) oil and has 100% tested at 150 degrees C. Ok to work in an Engine environment? The numbers say yes, hmmmm.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
stix wrote:
Loctite 620 Retaining compound. i have used it on front hub bearings, worked really well for me. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5467&p=45665&hilit=loctite#p45665. Heres the Loctite cutsheets http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/620-EN.PDF. Looks like it lasted 1000 hours in motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) ((Internal Combustion Engine?)) oil and has 100% tested at 150 degrees C. Ok to work in an Engine environment? The numbers say yes, hmmmm.

Thanks stix I will try and get some tomorrow. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


Look at the bearing pockets in the cases and the outside of the bearing races they look like they have spun in the cases?


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


Look at the bearing pockets in the cases and the outside of the bearing races they look like they have spun in the cases?

I am as soon as I get them clean and will put some pics. up. Do you have any ideas on where I can get the cylinder dowel pins from? Mine are pretty beat up. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7910
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


Look at the bearing pockets in the cases and the outside of the bearing races they look like they have spun in the cases?

I am as soon as I get them clean and will put some pics. up. Do you have any ideas on where I can get the cylinder dowel pins from? Mine are pretty beat up. Thanks Billy


Cut your own out of some pipe and drill them out.
Brake lines ??


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


Look at the bearing pockets in the cases and the outside of the bearing races they look like they have spun in the cases?

I am as soon as I get them clean and will put some pics. up. Do you have any ideas on where I can get the cylinder dowel pins from? Mine are pretty beat up. Thanks Billy


Cut your own out of some pipe and drill them out.
Brake lines ??

????????????? lol


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
I will get some pictures tomorrow after I clean everything up so it can be seen. I ordered the Loctite 620 today should be here in the morning. While I was getting everything together to take in for cleaning I noticed that both of the bearings for the balancer fell out. Could this have been causing the vibration that I was feeling? I am thinking so but just wondering if anyone would know for sure. Thanks Billy


Look at the bearing pockets in the cases and the outside of the bearing races they look like they have spun in the cases?

I am as soon as I get them clean and will put some pics. up. Do you have any ideas on where I can get the cylinder dowel pins from? Mine are pretty beat up. Thanks Billy


You can get the cylinder dowels from Honda
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 7-000.html


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
hoser wrote:
You can get the cylinder dowels from Honda
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 7-000.html


Or you can spend $8.99 per dowel pin from this Mutt...http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Honda-Dowel-Pin-12X16-FL250-ATC250-CR250-MR250-MT250-FL-ATC-CR-250MR-MT-/121159593114?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c35acac9a&vxp=mtr :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
DMoneyAllstar wrote:



You can search the Partzilla site for PIN, DOWEL (12X16) and find another dowel the same size for .98 each http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 12160.html

I did not list this in my last post because it says PIN A, DOWEL (12X16) I don't know if the "A" means its a solid dowel or if its the same as used on the FL350, I know the other I gave info for will work, I didnt want to mislead someone and force a bad day on them to save two bux, I might order a few of the .98 each dowels on my next order to see if they will work then list on the FL350 parts page..


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:



You can search the Partzilla site for PIN, DOWEL (12X16) and find another dowel the same size for .98 each http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 12160.html

I did not list this in my last post because it says PIN A, DOWEL (12X16) I don't know if the "A" means its a solid dowel or if its the same as used on the FL350, I know the other I gave info for will work, I didnt want to mislead someone and force a bad day on them to save two bux, I might order a few of the .98 each dowels on my next order to see if they will work then list on the FL350 parts page..

Thanks I will check them out. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
Ok I got my cases pretty clean or enough that the bearing area can be seen. If you look close you can see where there has been some movement. But I got the Loctite in today so maybe this afternoon after work I can get the bearings set, I also dropped my crank off at the shop so they can install the new rod and bearings and shims. So far so good for the day. Thanks Billy


Attachments:
File comment: Notice the area on the left.
photo 1.JPG
photo 1.JPG [ 81.82 KiB | Viewed 1929 times ]
photo 2.JPG
photo 2.JPG [ 107.48 KiB | Viewed 1929 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3295
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Something to think about if using the Loctite cylinder retainer. Since I have not installed in an Engine I can only speculate that the bearing must be centered, Maybe before squirting the Loctite in the case, Set you case halves and balancer aside and ready for a mock up. Then squirt the Loctive install bearing, or per Loctite instructions, thec assemble cases. Leave assemble until loctite drys. Maybe set the cases in a fashion where the bearing is setting flat so that it dries centered.....Then again the bearing might just self center since were only talking about at most .01 gap. Anyhow just my 2 cents and some change


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
stix wrote:
Something to think about if using the Loctite cylinder retainer. Since I have not installed in an Engine I can only speculate that the bearing must be centered, Maybe before squirting the Loctite in the case, Set you case halves and balancer aside and ready for a mock up. Then squirt the Loctive install bearing, or per Loctite instructions, thec assemble cases. Leave assemble until loctite drys. Maybe set the cases in a fashion where the bearing is setting flat so that it dries centered.....Then again the bearing might just self center since were only talking about at most .01 gap. Anyhow just my 2 cents and some change

Stix I'm with you on the alignment, but I got lucky and they fit pretty tight. BUT one of my crank bearings fell out when I bumped the case on the work bench. So I went ahead and sealed all of the bearings. When I ordered the parts from odatv1 he sent everything and the (hard to get) double lip seal fit great but I have four O-rings that I am going to have to find out where they go. I installed the one that fits in the balancer side spacer but I haven't removed any others. If you know about any of them please give me a holler. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3295
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Looks like 21(alternator cap), 22(balancer?) and 23(dipstick) for first pic of crankcase diagram and the 22 for crankshaft. Not sure about the 4th O ring, been a few years since Ive been inside the 350 Engine


Attachments:
0F05.png
0F05.png [ 65.34 KiB | Viewed 1918 times ]
0F06.png
0F06.png [ 267.81 KiB | Viewed 1918 times ]
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