Hare is a top notch guy, heck he offered to pull the trans out of his Pilot and ship it to me when I was in CA lol, his honesty, character of integrity should not be in question here or any place else, the ONLY people that have ever had a problem with Joe is the darkside when he points out their dirty dealings to warn the general public.

Joe has done nothing wrong here (well maybe used harsh language) Hare has always been a stand up open and honest guy since the first day I met him, again only the darkside mutts who are usually running some sort of scam to get into others wallets fear him.

I left my old site (Pilot-Odyssey.com) to the darkside mutts to get away from this BS, from what I have been told they have turned it into vendors row, they only answer post with replies that make them money, they still don't offer any original technical advice or service just regurgitate what I have taught them..

Over the years we have weeded out most of the darkside mutts from this site and will continue to do so.

Anybody has ANY problems with the brake disc or has any technical views or advice on the disc lets hear it! lets discuss it! if you want to cry about someone undercutting your price then go to my old site and cry to kiowa.

It was the harsh language that really turned my stomach... I have seen bugpac's post on several other sites and do not think he is out to make a living on selling stuff. Might be he knows people that do since he is from MI. and all... for me that is no reason for me to dislike him...
I have read ALOT of old post about the vendors on these boards and am leary of most... reason being if you have to pounce on newbies better mgmt of resourses might be in order... I was a Custom Saddle Maker up till about 6 years ago, so I know what it is like to be self employed in a specialty market... I was able to let my work stand for itself... It is scary when you are trying to make a living this way... But I believe most are either doing this to support their own hobby or for extra income... That is not how you run a business, in my experience at least...
If I by chance ever meet Hare I will gladly shake his hand and hope to be his friend, but I will not tolerate such rude behavior in a man... My son and I read this site together sometimes so I take offense to the language... Sorry about the New Jersey thing, I can't say nothing about PA as my parents are from western PA...LOL

You have a valid point I made a word sensor for the offending word.

Thank you... Hpefully I didn't piss anyone off... Hare I am sorry I called you a New Jersian...

Thanks for the comments guys, sorry for not posting sooner, been busy trail clearing. I will try and watch the P.U.I.s posting under the influence and I live in Maryland, and NJ guys are alright in my book now them NY types...

Vroom we agree 100%, they are all HYPE terms used for sales in this case. and super thanks for the offer, surely it will come in handy parts are getting harder to find, I think a rear bearing carrier might be next on our list seeing how they are discontinued.

Having or not having an engineering degree or understanding a chart by no means makes anyone an expert or not, I am sure you see this a lot. If something works better in the field, understanding results vs conditions as they relate to desired performance is all that matter to the end user. Simply meaning I want my brakes to work, this combination of pad and rotor stops the best, or this rotor lasts the longest. We can crunch numbers all day but testing tells the tale.

I see this very often in the real world, its a shame they don't make actual field experience mandatory curriculum for a degree, we all would be better off. I can't tell you how many engineers i have dealt with that don't have a clue how what they designed is installed, serviced, or possibly replaced in the future. A year or two of actual field work installing in their degree of choice would make the world spin faster for sure. There are probably even more installers that are worse and has no business holding a licience in the first place.

Another side of that coin is that most if not all manufactures are (especially aftermarket suppliers) constantly battling cost vs quality to increase revenue, the end user often takes the brunt.

that's why I take nothing for granted, from the magazines about new bikes or products or anyone concerned with selling. I like word of mouth from someone that owns and really uses a product.

I do my testing by the seat of my pants and i trust that 100%. I get a lot of seat time in all types of conditions and terrain and I am brutal on my equipment. that's how many products are made better or at least how you find out the true weak points, seat time. My comments and opinions are based upon my seat experiences not a molecular level understanding of how carbon can get stuck inside steel or from EBC's catalog sales lines.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are very right Turbo the cussing is wrong on a public forum or around the kids, i am sorry and point taken.

I forget its not just a bunch of 40 year old guys here. No excuse but I have been a construction guy all my life and do have a potty mouth, my better half reminds me of that often. For the record and regrettably so i do cuss in public, especially around my buds, its one of my multiple flaws, but am usually civil enough in public not to offend. But please do keep that in mind if considering tolerating my presents, no one will dictate my behavior rude or otherwise until they got me in cuffs. I would be glad to shake your hand and love to ride with you, or anybody for that matter, that shares my passions, enough said.

The post and the word was done to make a point and it did that, as far as I am concerned it could all go away now.

Turbo you haven't been here long enough to see the stuff "they" have pulled. For all we know you (or any other screen name we don't know personally) could be any of "those guys" playing the same games. I am not paranoid just cautious cause I have seen the little girl games happen a few times already, I used to tell hoser he was crazy and chill out, I was wrong and he proved that to me.

I think you are who you say you are because of your posts, pictures and stuff from the places and problems you have experienced but how am I to know until one of us personally meets you? My face and many other of the PO.com faces are and have long been posted on the internet, we are not hiding. that's the problem of a internet forum.

Strangly Bugpac doesn't have pictures like that, projects of sure but I no of no one that knows him personally (know his name, number, rode with him, sold or bought parts) and he has chose to leave that information void from any of his posts or pictures, maybe he's just cautious, not. Hes knows things about us by his little comments that shows he (or they) are around.

Same with Zicky, and a couple other fake names from guys still trying to mess with us, all of us, including you Turbo. I would prefer to be wrong on this one but again its not up to me. now they will pick new names, lurk for a while and then start up again.

I cuss too!!! I am just real careful who I cuss in front of. I would never tell you not to cuss, if I found it to be "to much" I would just go somewhere else...

Wish I had a better picture to ease your mind...

I've met and ridden with Bugpac at Silver Lake and seen his buggy build. He's not someone else hiding behind a screen name. I do know from his posts on other boards that he's not shy about calling em like he sees em.

No need for this to change direction, NJ or TX or MI, darwin or fundamentalist isn't whats going on here, there is a new thread for that.

Odypilots Thank you for your post, we do know who you are, not hiding, your pics and video contribute greatly. However I am a bit dismayed you waited until now to post. I am glad to hear that bugpac is a different person than one we already know. I wish bugpac would of introduced himself a bit more, certainly was asked kindly enough times, but again its just another game, another set up. If it wasn't he would of offered and made us rotors before now end of story.

We get to know each other. We know most of the active poster's job or at least basic stuff about them besides their toys, even if they are new or a kid or whatever . Little stuff just comes out in a bunch of posts over time, no matter who Bugpac is he has chose not to include us in on that or his history / qualifications or anything about him except for his project, which is totally void of any personal pictures, and him asking for people to send him a arms or other parts to copy, we really don't know if he is a guy or a girl? 70 year old perv or 15 year old girl scout? Why should we trust or care what he has to say until he trusts us enough to be open and honest? Way too much mystery, way too much BS, I have no time for this, keep on playing, I am done.

As I said before and I will say now $20. rotors HELL YEAH! Please send me two but I guess I am off the list. lmao

HareScrambles wrote:





............... So true! My business is overflowing with inexperienced engineers that are literally afraid to set foot on the manufacturing floor. If you're in the market for a power turbine, don't buy one from GE.

Vrroom

I'm not sure of the time line of this whole thing, but I didn't meet him until the last weekend of Silver Lake's season, and never felt the need to post about him since then. True, I could have posted during this thread a few days sooner, but, honestly, I thought long and hard about even getting into this. I think differently about many things than the majority on this board, and truely don't wish to stir the pot.

You still think this is ok, my friends should still be happy about recieving these in the mail then being ignored until the "majority" nagged him into fixing the problem? http://pilotodyssey.com/shocking.mpg

We wish you were the first to purchase those items then you might think different

I respect that, thanks.

I keep checking in on this one and every time I am surprised at how it is spiraling out of control. I didn’t think that I was going to check in but why not (moron new kid at work tried to flip a vehicle with me in the passenger seat today so …). At first I had the impression this was the bad old days but I change my mind, this is a recap to remind some of us why we are here and not ‘there’ and it’s a history lesson for others.

Technical stuff first.

Don’t make brake rotors out of any type of material that is heat treatable or heat treated. Don’t make rotors from anything that is not homogonous (the same consistency or hardness throughout). Brakes can and do get hot. Glowing orange hot, and not just on the test stand at some R&D facility on the other side of the planet. The problem is, the way you heat treat metal is to heat it, then cool it according to some prescribed method (that is what the funny pictures that Vrroom posted are about ((personally I don’t remember that stuff from school, I have called my wife from work and asked her to explain it to me, it’s one of the fringe benefits of being married to a rocket scientist / metallurgist))).

So, just imagine, you are descending some big ass hill riding your rear brake. At the bottom of the hill your case hardened (or what ever) rear brake rotor is really hot and you ride threw a creek. So where on Vrroom’s chart are you now?

Not a good plan

Hoser:

I try not to disagree on this site publicly (for reasons obvious to some) but. Marv’s method is not bad however I think Hare’s method has worked well for less effort. He started to try and reverse engineer the rotor from an old one. Then he changed directions and simply asked some one who could tell him exactly what Honda did in the first place. Then he conned another friend in to machining the parts for him. To finish the deal he organized a ride where his engineer and his machinist sat around discussing it while gorging them selves on meat that his wife cooked. Not a bad deal for any of us.

I just looked over what you wrote and noticed it is specifically about the material. What I have referred to above is more about the shape, but there was some material content. I thought you mentioned something about rear carriers, you might try this method (I can picture you calling me a mutt right about now but I’m not too worried about seeing it posted).

Hare,

Thanks for the offer on the rotor but there is no need. If Hoser is right about every part needing to be reproduced maybe I should accept. Then in 10 years I will have my very own Pilot. Of course it would seam greedy to ask for 2 lower arms and 2 tie rods. I would end up with half a Pilot.

On the language issue, it would be nice if I knew something on the content of a string before I open it up. My employer has spy software that is looking for ‘inappropriate language’ and they randomly screen the pictures we look at. It would be nice to be able to check the site at lunch and still have a job in the afternoon.

Ok, I’m inserting a random story for my own entertainment. When my employer first installed there spy program one of the guys I work with had an e-mail kicked back because it contained the word ‘screw’ more than 3 times. He was communicating with a supplier about a screw clamp. We played around with it a little and discovered that ‘fornication clamp’ was just fine. Morons.

Bug pack (or who ever you are)
At first I thought ‘I do Hare’s CAD work, and FEA, layout work etc (if he asked for it) for free’. Then I realized that my expertise is probably the more valuable asset to those who ask. The bottom line is that what I know may not be exactly what is needed (I think in terms of 10,000 units and letting any mutt with money ride it) but at least I can offer some perspective. What is it you are bringing to the table?

Turbo
You’ve already heard it but Hare’s a great guy, a little rough around the edges but give him a chance. Make one of the rides out this way and see for yourself.

Below is a email sent to me by Bugpac, I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide so am posting here in public for everybody to see.

On a side note you (the public) don't have to read this thread any more then complain if you don't want to....


Hoser, i don't see how i was defending live wire or whatever, I also couldnt respond to hares question since my ip was blocked..I have no clue why my ip comes up different locations.... also i don't support live wire in any way....Sure i got the quickie in my sig at minibuggy, but how many posts yo see there from me, i did it to draw attention to there site, yes i am friends with atv nut....Big deal, like i said i don't judge people before i meet them.....I am at the same location i always have been, I don't go talking crap about you or anyone else here, well the ip block may have brought a few bad apples...Now on the 20 dollar rotor bit, i jjust bought 3 3/8 thick for 23.00 bux, its not like i was lying to anyone....Yes they are laser cut, and mild steel pickled and oiled....I never in that thread said hares rotors were junk, I simply was commenting that the bickering about the quikie site was bs.....Seems hare obviously mis interpurted what was said....I got to say one thing about them gys you talk about, they don't post in forums how shity your site etc is....You got to give them that...So on the ban bit maybe you didnt, but my ip addy was for sure....The program i have tells me if it has been blocked....Maybe it was accidential or whatever....I also had zero to do with the rotor on that site etc, i havent offered them in the past because it was never talked about, seems we talked about making a lot of different parts, i never remeber rotors being one, and i have just recently found the laser guy that works for near free.....Anyway im not apolagizing for anything, i don't see i did anything wrong....And i was reluctant to voice my opinion to begin with, but its hard for me to not play in the fire, just as it is for you, lol....If you have second thoughts about me, i will be here....

Peace...

My reply to him is put here in public because I have nothing to hide and I feel others need to know where I come from, I have always been honest and open about matters such as this since the general public forms an opinion about others based on what they have read here, its no secret and Pilot Odyssey history clearly shows the darkside works over time to plant seeds in new peoples minds so they can later collect funds from them, a STRONG attempt was made here to plant more seeds.

Bugpac here is what we see

You were around the board for a while when you first appeared you seem to have a interest in this group even tho you don't own a Pilot or Odyssey.

You post your stalled buggy building project in Projects then soon ignored it even though their was a genuine interest in your project by many board members, the frequency at which you visited Pilot-Odyssey.com greatly diminished until one day you appeared asking for help accessing the chat room, I spent 3-4 hours researching and trying to help you resolve the chat problem, once you were able to access the chat you did once then only stayed in the chat room for a few minutes and left, we view this as you just wanting to waste our time and take advantage of our good nature and willingness to help others, once again the frequency at which you accessed Pilot-Odyssey.com greatly diminished until the post about the brake disc appeared.

"Funny" how you were alerted and drawn to this post, by your own words you were in on the darkside plot to stir up shit , your own words are "Hare, funny thing is the new quicke site did exactly what they intended, they got you to drop your price....."

We all seen how you kept coming back to feed the fire in the brake disc thread adding your past participation and the frequency at which you accessed Pilot-Odyssey.com I started looking at server logs and noticed the replies were coming from a ip address located in Ohio not Michigan where your post have came from in the past, going by your past post history and since the trouble making post were coming from another state and IP address that IP address was blocked as any good web master would do.

The core members of this group pretty much agree after looking at all your past post and contributions to this site you really have nothing to bring or to contribute, since you have abandon your buggy building post on this site and don't even own a Pilot or Odyssey we really cant figure out what is it you have to cry about.

Is it coincidence that this is posted and the site goes down for 10-15 minutes?

No not at all, I see your not the only one to notice this, it was the darksides first knee jerk reaction to reading the post, attacks like this have been going on for years.

I might need some help but probably can prove who did the attack, before the post I flushed the server log files to make tracing the offenders easier, I also had Ethereal turned on doing packet capture... Anybody that wants to help me locate the offender that attacked the server can call me or send me a email I will forward the log files to you....

No doubt the first step will be reading the email notification log file to see who all was sent a email when the post was updated then see who read this post before the server attack..

More harassment form the darkside....

I guess life is too dull for them they need to keep coming to my web page many times a day.

Again I have nothing to hide below is the email sent to me leonard smith buggy_fabber@yahoo.com


"Hey dumbass, its Bugpack.com , It amazing and you think your the great one, lol...Figure out who hit your site yet, Lmfao...."


===================================================================
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From: leonard smith <buggy_fabber@yahoo.com>
Subject: From the dark side
To: pilot400@mchsi.com
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Hey dumbass, its Bugpack.com , It amazing and you think your the great one, lol...Figure out who hit your site yet, Lmfao....


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