I need to order a new top end, Who does the best porting? PCP did the last one.

Thanks in Advance,

Tim

You need a new top end, whats wrong with the current jug, mabye resleeving it is a choice for you -PCP DID the porting, whats currently the bore size and issues with it, can you post pictures please so we can better help you.SERVICE HONDA is a great place to by items from, have you accessed the Hoser home page by chance?There is a link for them there.

It's on the last honda bore, Compression is 170 fresh 150 now,I want to order a new jug,head,and piston. it has a 39 pwk,torque pipe,PowerBlock Clutch. I want a whole New Ported Top End,I personally think 170 is too high so I would like the new one a little lower. Then Look into fixing the old one as a backup.

Tim

You might want to dicuss the comp to top end pull with your Engine builder. 170 is about the limit for pump gas at your elevation. higher elevation 180 on mx pump and fuel and lower 160 gas not enough comp at you top end pull will suffer, is it just one number in the in the process If your at 150 know you may be able to save the bore with new rings and hone. Check it befor it goes away and save your self some money. If your running 170 with fresh bore you head most likly have been already modified and some port mods can help if your looking for a dunner. If woods be carfull for the top end, mid range pull with torgue pipe work better tree to tree and turn to turn as well as coming out of the cornors. I have played with both and found happy medium via two pilots and 2-jug,heads,shocks and pipe for the woods and one for the dunes. I use a bigger bore for more tougue in the wood and smaller to rev at the dunes. Ya don't forget the clutch will need to be set for both as well, not enough weight in the woods and the front gets to light coming out of the cornors and you'll wonder why it won't stay in the tracks You really afto like to wrench to have best of both if not see at the top. Ever make to LS in OK post I'll meet ya for a ride. don't mix and match builders it usalyy don't work. I tend to work of the principle of effency rather than max HP. to say it,s easy to achieve a goal using max effency of the products available then going the other way. Match porting to the speces of a pipe with intake and timming in mind. To much exhaust and not enough intake it suffers and also the other way around. On the pressure if you rev a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and do not maintain enough pressure on the intake and exhaust side it just spins, no power but revs like a banshee to say the ring do not seal from the gas pressure being enighted and the intake charge suffering( lack of, due to loss in vacume) that's makes for jetting nightmare and is hard on your main bearing due to improper lubraction. ping ping bang boom and the stockers are driving past ya. Do a little resurch and talk to builders before having them do the work to get a good handle on your goal and driving habits as well as how often do you want to work on it. The more power your build the more time you'll spend kepping it up. for some no problem and for some they like to ride and not spend a lot of time wrenching. I call them (bikes)"gas and go" Good luck and have fun let me know what you do and how it work. Old dogs can learn new tricks or they don't get the best part of the bone.

you might be able to talk hoser into it, he has the best running pilot i have seen, and he does the work himself, the port map is from someone else but works tits. At least you know he won't give it to some kid to learn on your stuff.

To port a cylinder that is on the last bore is a waste of money, PCP should of suggested that you not waste your money porting a worn out jug, i hope they did. But even worse is if they suggested taking a stock or 1st over jug and to Oversize / Big Bore with the sole intent of increasing HP. A overbore cylinder will not last anywhere near as long as a stock, to do so is a waste of money unless you are racing for money.

What you mentioned is another reason not to use PCP and/or some of the others the "other pilot boards" suggest to use, ATVR is another, also Aftershoc Motardsports same with Bore tech, i saw things that scare me from Randy at odysalvage(he sends his out). These are all places that may do or have done decent work at times,(chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts doesn't even do his own work he sends it out to) but most have been pumped up by the self proclaimed "tech gurus" for reasons I have never understood, maybe they get a better deal or possibly ego stroking, these places are more geared to take your money via HP hype type talk, in other words, sales. The regular local Engine builder won't be hyping he will be wanting to know how and what you want done. And that info comes for free from here. Again if profit is the motivation, quality is the cost.

Crank rebuilds should be $50. or under, bores should be $60. or less

Hare, That's what I'm looking for. Someone who knows what He's Doing

PCP did it about 6 years ago,It's been bored twice since.

Tim

man you must ride ALOT or race or not be getting much time out of your engines, but if was mine i would keep running it 150 psi is just a number

Do you know the piston cylinder clearance they set it up with or what it is now? how many bottom ends have you done? Were you happy with the PCP port job? Who bored it the next times?

Compression numbers don't mean much to me I would need to measure your exhaust port opening, width, and height to determine the tune cut into your cylinder, static compression readings are a great tool, after a rebuild check the compression before starting the Engine for the first time then check it after each heat cycle during break in and check it after every ride weekend or trip.

If my Pilot Engine modified or stock lost more than 5 psi since it was rebuilt I would tear it down for a inspection because something it wrong. a 20 psi drop is horrible something has or is worn badly to lose that much ring seal.

The first time pcp did it, I was very happy with it, The next one lasted not near as long, Last time I didn't Specify a Honda Piston And pcp sent a weisco
This one doesn't have but about 25 hours on it. I've never done the bottom end.


20 Lbs that fast tells me something it Wrong.
Its parked now.
Should I rebuild the whole motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) or just do a top end?
Can you feel if the rod is getting loose?

Tim

sorry if a bit incoherent, phone and other distractions are competing

honda only offers the .25mm and .50mm oversize pistons, when you go beyond that wiesco is the only option i think their largest is .80" over (inches not mm)

hoser and i differ on some of our methods, hoser does it the right way and i do it the slug way, yes a 20psi drop does means something but you don't have much time at all on that Engine and there shouldn't be a problem or the last time.

it could be as easy as a stuck ring, bad bore/ hone, improper assembly or a multitude of things. its hard to tell if a crank or mains are going, but after putting three top ends on that you know about I would be suspect of the lower end. any crank play up and down is bad, a little side to side is ok, mains and seals are worth doing and absolutely use honda bearings and seals. I would do it all except the crank (unless its questionable) It be a shame to put a brand new ported jug on a bottom end that may KABOOM and mess it all up or at least lose a couple of bores over $100. in bearings and seals and a $400. tear down / assembling labor charge.

I ride a lot, i mean alot, 40+ weekends a year is not uncommon for me.

For years I rarely if ever do compression tests on any of my two strokes and i get great service life, 100 hours + and even more time on my two stroke bikes I race, all without a compression test, point is when an Engine is assembled and run the right way it will keep running with little to no maintenance. I try to clean my air filter and change my trans oil (dirt bike) every ride, other than that good fuel and oil mixed about 40:1 and gentle warm ups without prolonged idling is my master plan and it works.

There are either other problems causing this (carb/jetting, air leak, poor air filter seal/ maintenance) or the Engine is not being set up right, plain and simple.

I'll Start With A Pressure Test And then go from There.
I just want it right.

Tim

Getting it right starts with a careful inspection, a pressure test is a great start, it needs to be done on a 2 stroke before disassembly and after assembly before running to ensure the Engine is sealed.

I have no idea what your mechanical skills are but you might want to read all the CSI's I have post, read them slow and carefully I give as many details as I can, sometimes what seems like a rant is actually great advice and details to helping others discover trace evidence that leads to the root causes of problems and failures.

http://pilotodyssey.com/CSI.htm

At any time in the discovery process you can throw in the towel and ship me your Engine, I will tear down and CSI for free, once the problem is discovered we go from their, at that point I can box up and ship back if you like, you just pay exact shipping charges.

Unlike other Pilot Odyssey sites here at PilotOdyssey.com the members also get a free cylinder bore and hone if needed, sounds like yours is on its last bore but just so you know the service is their.

http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=892

I Pulled the Engine out last night, Pressure Test Went very well (went from 12 to 10 Lbs in 20 Min.
What Size is the bolt to pull the powerblock Clutch?

Hoser, I think I'll start tearing it down, But if I run Into anything Funky, I may take you up on that, Wanna port a new Cylinder ?

Tim

Hi
Any updates?

I forget the puller bolt size but MassOdy knows...

Ok here it is I found the post.


http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?p=15864

Engine is on the workbench , Clutch is off ,
Hoser I sent you a PM.

Tim

If you decide to start with a fresh jug would you be willing to sell your old one for a project I'am working one. the bore size to me don't mater. It would be smart to keep as spare have it bored for a weisco and have on hand just in case.

What is the project maybe I can help I have a few cylinders, what are the requirements?

Hoser, Pictures I tried to take don't tell anything. the Bore at the top of the cylinder mikes 3.172,Piston mikes 3.162

Closer to the center down by the ports the piston looks like it has at least .020 clearance.

Adnoh, Let me get back to you on that.

Tim

Tim, Thanks. "H" I'am looking for stock to mild ported cyklinder on there or close to last leg for a stroker mod. As you may have know I'am going to start a tiger tammer project. I'ts fun to chase them and I would like to run a little closer. I will be working from a stoker point of view with rev pipe attempting to pull harder in the top rpm scale. Presently run engage at 4000 and 4500 setups with the 4000 power range from 5800 to 7000 and the 4500 set up with power rang from 6200 to 7400 with a sweet spot of 7600. A pipe change wil help with the sweet spot however I will be trying a theroy of stroke to wave matching. Hoping to achieve strong wave flux at 7800 to 7900 with out flash over or pressure loss to the rings. My head still working on the math but always willing to try new method. Got good feed back from dennis, ted and drakman on current motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and now lokking to expand on present set up for greather closure rate. I know I will never out run them but trying to run at a less taxing rate. The current clousre rate is taxing the breaking system. I found running what I referd to as the saturday set up, the brakes were working preaty hard (heating up and loosing pressure) coming in to hot trying to out break. Post ride inspectin #2 showed bango bolt leaking and needing to be replaced in the rear. Trying new syn dot 4 in system it tends to have higher heat rang than what I was using. I drained and clean line and installed new fluid as well as new pads. THe olds one were glazed over a little and want to use new pads as a guide with new fluid. I will also be trying new shock package. The old set up works great chasing quads but not draks. I will ned to lengthen wheel to wheel and longer travle. I feel and from what drakeman and ted said the spped I was carring look a little scary. I don't want to be reckless. Back to the Engine sorry tend to babble. Once i found if I can get Engine to work I will then order new "C" cylinder if avalible and port to those specs. For testing I will install my spare crank and rod (rebuitl) for testing new cylinder package just incase. Do not want to damage exhisting setup. I expect some damage for I have not gone down this road before and my math skills are a little lacking. Remember I'am a back yard hacker. I will try 500 rev pipe since can not get new pipe built in time. The only thing is I will need to reduce outlet tube with space (too large for my bore) as well as other minor items. I have tried to use the calc you posted and can not not match results with my home grown math. I will keep trying. I will measure up the 500 pie and compare to the 400 rev pipe to see which will preform better with cylinder and head mod. I also will need bigger carb than the 39 some where around 41 or 42. and larger and shorter intake tract tube. Any help or susgestion will be appreatied Thanks Richard