i am the owner of hawk motorsports we were building what was (formerly) the drakart single seater the xtr660 turbo and the formula cross this is what i have the rights to build and sell the hawk single seater frame jigs all sub jigs and body molds laser drawings suppliers list parts list and parts numbers auto cad&volo programs for windows xp to read laser drawings and make new ones one car almost complete tubing cut and bent to make five whole frames and three partial ones motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) in car complete plus one more complete motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and one long block all complete with electronics wheels tires steering hub steering shaft stock gas tank stems and caps seat belts ball joints front and rear hubs lots of them front and rear rotors spindels shock coils much assorted laser cut many bearings clips seals some cables bucket seats brake lines calipers axels clutch springs and weights and much much more also have source fot transmissions everything must go as a package deal i am not selling it in parts if someone is interested they can email me at hawk2@frontiernet.net

Not that I am in the market, but what kinda price are you looking for???
Please don't reply "If you gota ask, you can't afford it"... That would be just plain rude...

if you are interested email me at hawk2@frontiernet.net thank you tony

Here I will save everybody a lot of time.

I asked in a email

How much you asking for the whole package deal?

Where are you located to pick up everything?

How big of a truck or trailer would be needed to pick everything up?

What is the source of the transmissions (brand) and how much will they be costing the buyer?

Thanks

His reply was.





Now you can ask questions I didnt ask.

Hoser what did you think,are you thinking about it?

What do I think?

Why would you pay someone for rights to a buggy?

What are the rights your buying, this thing have patents and your buying the rights to the patents? If not it sounds like your buying expensive toilet paper, I guess you would have to take the whole agreement to a very smart lawyer and find out what it actually is and have your lawyer talk to Alain Fricker (Drakart owner) as well as Cmore Racing since they have had some involvement with building the "Drakart".

Why spend 40k why not buy a Drakart for 10 to 12 k and copy it, once your done then you have a Drakart out of the deal.

As far as the trans goes IMO the Drakart trans is running the wrong ratio its always been geared way to high, look at the Pilots and Odyssys gearing, look at the gear box Dan Roberto (RPM) makes he offers 8:1 to 10:1 ratios? The Drakart trans is 4:1 ? IMO Alan Fricker cheeped out and used a sled trans parts VS building a real trans like the RPM trans.

If I was going to build a buggy to sell like the Drakart I would by a Briggsbuilt and copy it, he has no patents on any of the cars at least that is what he told me, I asked if he had a problem with me copying one he said knock yourself out, the Briggs car is already perfected, needs nothing, might need a few tweaks for desert racing, spend all your money on having fenders made something everybody wants.

The drakarts still have no belt guard, the Redline still has no belt guard, the Briggsbuit has belts guards.... The briggs never had fenders, I assume to save weight, some race sanctions did not allow "enclosed wheels" or fenders...


Want to buy blue prints RORTY sells car plans he will allow you to mass produce and sell his car too I think all you have to do is buy the plans for each car you sell, sounds more than reasonable to me...

How hard can it be to copy a car, plumb, level, square, work off center lines, get a few friends together on a weekend and measure it up and blue print the thing, start bending tubing and welding it together, you can build jigs as you go.

Why reinvent the wheel when the guy who perfected it no longer wants to build his wheel.

Do I want to build buggys? NO and for the same reason Bob Briggs does not build them their is no money in it when compared to other things you can do with the same effort.

If I wanted to GO BIG and mass produce thousands of buggys I would buy a 100% stock Pilot and take it to china to be duplicated, it would get a 4 stroke Engine so it could comply with emissions, its quality would be higher than buggys you see coming from china today.

The Trophy Karts seem to have taken off they are something a guy could actually make money off of, copy a full size Trophy Truck then scale it down?

Whole thing gives me a headache heh

now that you put your two cents in that's about it was werth two cents thanks i don't guess you want to by it so thanks any how tony

Good point! My reply is based on what I know and see so far, perhaps you can answer more questions and explain the deal and the value of 'rights to build' in more detail, I am pretty sure that discussion is whats going to sell the package your offering.

How come the rights is for sale again?

If I buy this how many cars a year can I expect to sell?

How many cars total have you sold since you have owned the 'rights to build'?

Do you have pictures of the stuff your selling, stuff = what comes with your description.

Do you have pictures of finished cars you built, I think most knows what a Drakart looks like but would like to see what exactly you were building and what can be built with your 'rights' .

Thanks again.

if any one else is serious about purchasing these items please email me at hawk2@frontiernet.net i will furnish all the info that i can i am meeting some one from washingtion at the ranch on oct the 21st to see what i have if some else want to be there please email me for directions please direct any more questions to my email thank you for your interest tony

So I guess your not serious about selling?

I cant understand why your so unwilling to give details in public, I have had this gut feeling about you and what your doing and selling since you sent me your first email, most people selling something go into great detail, are very descriptive and use all kinds of pictures, your approach seems real fishy to me.

My advice to anybody interested in what hawk is selling to contact Alain Fricker of Drakart http://drakart.com/ and the guys at http://www.cmooreoffroad.com as well as have a sharp lawyer...

FYI to everybody, don't read between any lines here I don't know hawk or know that much about him, I have no axe to grind here all I know is he entered into some sort of deal with Drakart to build cars and it failed then the guys that worked for him started building cars http://www.cmooreoffroad.com The same with C-Moore Off-Road I don't know them and never exchanged any conversation with them I keep hearing they are real nice people and build a wonderful car, you can do a search here on this site for C-Moore and find some more info.

I've spent some time on the phone with him and must admit I've thought about the deal some. If I were at a differant place right now other than just buying a business, I'd consider it. In my opinion Hoser, you are missing the point on what he i selling, I agree with you the "rights" are useless. Alain has the value there, at least you could hope for a parts sale business. This guy DOES have a few thing worth it, and here they are;

1. an almost complete car (that is worth $10-12k there)
2. Two additional complete motors ($5k there)
3. Misc. parts (probably around $5k there)

So what is the "asset value"? I'd peg it between $20K - and $25k. Anyone that claims the business is worth less than that doesn't have much of a leg to stand on (unless you aren't interested in a buggy building business). The rest of what he has is eye of the beholder. It all comes down to one main question for a buyer

"do I want to build THAT car, if so, will there be buyers"

If you answer yes to this question then there is very good value in the jigs and ESPECIALLy the parts supplier lists. These two things could easily push the value to $40k. I originally thougth he'd be asking $100K plus for the business but he is realisitic on the pricing in my opinion. I don't' claim to be an expert on much and i don't' on this either but I have bought and sold multiple businesses and price evaluated hundreds of them. This one isn't too bad for a buyer that wants to break into the buggy building business. Again the key is that you answer the above question with a strong YES.

In the end, I think you hit it on the head and I've considered doing just what you suggested. Get an EXACT copy of the pilot made save for the Engine and then you can hit two markets, the market for new single seat buggys with a reconizable face but you could also sell "OEM" fitment parts for existing Pilots out there. You would undoubtably get a lawsuit filed against you in less than an hour from brainstorming this idea (Honda has a rep for being very aggressive in area). I wouldn't be surprised if Hoser gets a cease and desist from Honda for this discussion :)

Wow, that ended up much longer than planned

Asaszn

Thanks Hoser for pointing me here, I had not seen this post yet..

The only thing I know about Hawk, or I guess I should say Hawk Motorsports is this.. I ordered a car that seemed I was never going to get so I started asking for a refund. Had it not been for Dune Pilot I do not believe I would have gotten that refund, I would have just had to wait and wait till Hawk M. S. sold another car they were not delivering or get around to building my car.
In the end, I purchased the last Hawk car built, white 660 Turbo, Brand New.. Well everything was brand new except for the used tranny that they took out of another car and put in my car. I was never informed this was a used tranny, Jason (bird, Hawks son), stated it was broke in when I asked him about it months later.. It was also at that point that I could not get a return call from Jason anymore and I could never get Tony to answer the phone or return a call once he had my deposit.
This info on the tranny was what I was told by a third party that was pretty up to date on what Hawk M.S. was doing, I do not know any of it first hand.

My thought is exactly what hoser posted, COVER YOUR ASS when dealing with Hawk!!!!

As I mentioned on the 'BS' section, I would like to see this model line continued.

Tony and I met several years ago, however, we have never had any dealings so I have no comments on his business.

I don't know why this didn't work for Hawk, so I won't guess.

If I were a lot younger, had the talent, time, and location, I might give it a try, but I don't so I won't.

For the right person, in the right situation, this just might be a real winner.

This model shares quite a few components with prior models. I would think, and understand it is only a guess, that there might be a fair market for parts sales if nothing else.

Thought I would update this.

Sent to me from the minibuggy site...



Anybody surprised Alain will not sell him parts, I am not, it would not surprise me to see a court order to stop building the cars once he starts, same with the fiberglass and other parts.... Time will tell I guess.

Looks like LIEwire has read my comments about Drakart gearing too.

What about price, the Redline is 16k? so what you gonna get from LIEwire that would justify spending more than 16k, hopefully we will have a Liewire VS Redline total shoot out that will show us in great detail what to buy and what not to buy, the Redline has FENDERS and a BELT GUARD

I do not know much about Redline but I saw one at ATVRacing while I was there getting my Tazcar rebuilt from my crash.

I was not able to get too close as it was in a storage shed but I could tell it would be a bitch for me to get into due to the wheelchair.

I also heard some pretty negative comments about it not being built too solid.. I also wondered why ATVRacing was working on it instead of Redline?

Sorry to read about your crash. I hope you and paggenger if any was ok. If ok got pictures. Did you nose swell up bigger than mine. I just can not imagine a taz car being rolled, WOW. Like I always say I like new parts.

I was out for a day ending ride when all of a sudden I was airborn.. We were playing on the bigger dunes, I was going South to North about 20 MPH when the next dune over looked like it was attached to the dune I was on.. That was not the case but there was no turning back, brakes were not working out in the air so I figured reverse would not work either..

I have different stories about how tall the dune was (30-40 ft.).. I went out about 30 ft and down however tall it was and "lawn darted" the tazcar on the nose, it then did a front handspring without even touching the the lights and light bar and landed on the trunk with the nose straight up in the air. At this point I was thinking "keep going, keep going" which it did and it fell foreward onto the wheels.

Things were not very clear at that point but I remember wanting it to keep going foreward so I never blacked out.

I did 5800 in damage to the Tazcar which is now fixed and ready to go and I broke my leg right above the ankle..

Here are a couple pics of the Taz. It sure could have been worse, the Tazcar took the hit and kept me tickin'...

I don't remember my nose swelling but my pride sure took a beating..

Eddy

I forgot, there was not a passenger..

Thanks again too all my riding buddies that got the buggy back to camp while I took the ambulance ride..

Drakman and Tedpilot were a HUGE help.. They spent the evening waiting on me at the hospital, went to the store and bought me some clothes since mine were cut off then took me back to camp once they released me.

The Dr. in Oklahoma would not do the surgery on me since I am a para. He released me and told me to go straight home and see a Dr. there.

The next morning, everyone loaded up my camper for me, hooked it to my truck and I was on my way home.. I sat side saddle in the drivers seat, my broke leg across the console with ice on it and propped up. My wife drove throught he night from home to help me get back home. It is an 8 1/2 hour drive which she started as soon as I told her I crashed. She got there about 1 am then we headed home at 8 am. She filled the truck and her car with gas at each stop so I did not have to get out..

Got home, dumped off my truck and trailer then headed to the hospital here.

Eddy,

I think you should post a photo of the clothes we got for you......

I can;t even imagine someone buying a car from Mr Bishop except for Hoodlum, you have got to be nuts----
Alain couldnt sell them-the rpoduct line never took off, even for 40 grand they are a dead issue-good luck to all that purchase-the used trans are just the tip of that iceberg-

What "product line" are you talking about? What was $40k? Used transmissions? This is not making nay sense to me...

My head got cut out.. This is the only pic I had, that crazy woman took it while I was about asleep..

E

If Ted would have let me, I would have bought the women's pink running suit, but he said it would be adding insult to injury, still I thought it would have added a bit of humor to the situation.

I guess all's well that ends well!

Jerry

I appreciate you Ted, You da Man,,, Thanks for keeping the "pink" out of it by keeping Jerry in check..

Shouldn't you guys be riding?

Eddy

You want this guy building your buggy?

Pilotman