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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
PIC"S 902 903 904 are the best now that I see them posted. These were taken while the Ody was on top of the trailer, so I simply went from one side to another to snap the pics...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
PIC"S 902 903 904 are the best now that I see them posted. These were taken while the Ody was on top of the trailer, so I simply went from one side to another to snap the pics...


You will need to draw some arrows I still have no idea what your talking about lol


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
Some new pic's taken today as I was playing in AZ. I noticed something that wasn't matched up and am wondering if this is by design, or might be the cause of my problems???


Merry Christmas you lucky dog getting to ride TODAY!!!

Where exactly where you riding?

I have no idea what your trying to point out here...


Wasn't real exciting... I chose a place to shut down based on it's food and such... I stayed in Willcox, AZ. I wish I would have went to the next stop in Benson, AZ The spot was only a small dirt road, not terrain to challenge me and a Highway Patrol Station accidently got dusted as I went by them not knowing they were there!!! I was only going about 45 but the wind was blowing hard and my dust was flying...LMAO. I merely was wanting to test my fan on my brakes and it seemed to work well!!!

If you look at the 902 903 904 pic's you will see how the hiem the lawyer links pass thru are not evenly placed. the right side is mounted higher. I used a black ziptie to show this in first pics but the zip tie is hard to see...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
Some new pic's taken today as I was playing in AZ. I noticed something that wasn't matched up and am wondering if this is by design, or might be the cause of my problems???


Merry Christmas you lucky dog getting to ride TODAY!!!

Where exactly where you riding?

I have no idea what your trying to point out here...


Wasn't real exciting... I chose a place to shut down based on it's food and such... I stayed in Willcox, AZ. I wish I would have went to the next stop in Benson, AZ The spot was only a small dirt road, not terrain to challenge me and a Highway Patrol Station accidently got dusted as I went by them not knowing they were there!!! I was only going about 45 but the wind was blowing hard and my dust was flying...LMAO. I merely was wanting to test my fan on my brakes and it seemed to work well!!!

If you look at the 902 903 904 pic's you will see how the hiem the lawyer links pass thru are not evenly placed. the right side is mounted higher. I used a black ziptie to show this in first pics but the zip tie is hard to see...


So your talking about the patent pending linear hiem joint mounting points?

I put 2 green arrows in your picture for reference.

Hard telling why they are not the same, perhaps dipstick was trying to keep the same plane as where the lawyer links attach to the steering stem so they don't lock up the steering as much?


Attachments:
dipstick.jpg
dipstick.jpg [ 144.77 KiB | Viewed 5127 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


SAFETY has been my major concern ever since I laid my hands on these things http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9epoTz5pfm0

Kiowas life was put into danger when his nerf bar mount bent they snagged his throttle cable after he slightly grazed a tree with them, kiowas throttle went WOT (Wide Open Throttle) lucky he has quick reflexes he could have launched himself off the side of the mountain they were on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


Would you mind posting pictures of your setup???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I am refering to the difference in the gap between the sub-frame and this hiem contraption... I placed arrows in the spots I am refering to...


Attachments:
witharrow903.JPG
witharrow903.JPG [ 49.23 KiB | Viewed 3043 times ]
witharrow904.JPG
witharrow904.JPG [ 58.2 KiB | Viewed 3043 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
HERE ARE YOUR GREEN ARROWS UP CLOSE... iF YOU USE THE DOOR AS A REFERENCE POINT YOU CAN SQUARE UP THE SUBFRAME AND SEE THAT THE RITE (opps) side is higher than the left/drivers side???


Attachments:
dipstick_111with arrows.jpg
dipstick_111with arrows.jpg [ 15 KiB | Viewed 3036 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
Turbotexas wrote:
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


Would you mind posting pictures of your setup???



I tried to post some ealier, but I could not get the to upload. They were less than one meg and still would not load. So I'll try this.
Aarm mounts
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06067.jpg
front view LT FL600
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06065.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... ans003.jpg
idler arm
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06064.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06063.jpg
my buggy
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... s001-1.jpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
600cc??? man what in the world do you use for wings??? I have seen some of your video's I was wondering about that puke green bumper......
600 cc's??? I don't think I will even unload my trailer queen 350 at Prairie City...LOL


buggyfreak34z wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


Would you mind posting pictures of your setup???



I tried to post some ealier, but I could not get the to upload. They were less than one meg and still would not load. So I'll try this.
Aarm mounts
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06067.jpg
front view LT FL600
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06065.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... ans003.jpg
idler arm
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06064.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06063.jpg
my buggy
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... s001-1.jpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Boy that whole set up that whats his name is selling to us really freaks me out. The a arm moounts look ok but the hiem style bump steer I am not a fan of. I concidered making my steering with the hiem bump steer but I have seen if the inner tie rods get tweeked at all your pretty much screwed. So I built an idler arm set up on my buggy. It has been holding up pretty good for more than a year now and it takes all sorts of abuse. It will get alittle bent outta shape some time but it still functions right with out locking up. I'm just concerned abotu the safty of aftershocks products.


Would you mind posting pictures of your setup???



I tried to post some ealier, but I could not get the to upload. They were less than one meg and still would not load. So I'll try this.
Aarm mounts
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06067.jpg
front view LT FL600
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06065.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... ans003.jpg
idler arm
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06064.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... -06063.jpg
my buggy
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj24 ... s001-1.jpg





Yea the green bumper I had to think about I had no time to paint for the first race this last season and some of the people in the stands were yelling "Go green bumper dude" . So I guess I'll keep it that way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Nothing wrong with going green while burnig high octane mixed with syn oil. I say go green bumper dude as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 2858
Location: Wichita ks
Turbo I'm no expert. It does make me want to go UM. side load forces tends to come to mind. Is that what lee called a lawer link of was it refrence to who to call. I take it that's the bump steer problem solver. What if any controls the frictan expansion of the rod and joint. hot day heavy use maybe what lead to a steering lock. I would check rod for siezure marks if there pressent I would smooth up polish rod and clearenc the hole. It will cause a twitch feeling in the wheel but will help it from locking as well strenghting the rod. I would look for replacment joint that is coated to help with the friction form the to simaliar metals or run two stroke for lube on the front end. One chrome and and one plain steel will help or one polished and one platted. Put two pieces of gum and chew see if the stick together.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
Turbo I'm no expert. It does make me want to go UM. side load forces tends to come to mind. Is that what lee called a lawer link of was it refrence to who to call. I take it that's the bump steer problem solver. What if any controls the frictan expansion of the rod and joint. hot day heavy use maybe what lead to a steering lock. I would check rod for siezure marks if there pressent I would smooth up polish rod and clearenc the hole. It will cause a twitch feeling in the wheel but will help it from locking as well strenghting the rod. I would look for replacment joint that is coated to help with the friction form the to simaliar metals or run two stroke for lube on the front end. One chrome and and one plain steel will help or one polished and one platted. Put two pieces of gum and chew see if the stick together.


Think about it, remove the hiem joint (stupid is using it for a bushing) the lawyer link is going to try to move in all directions when you move the steering, its trying to fall down from gravity as Odyssey is just setting their still, add 50k miles bouncing on the back of a semi... rub a dub dub...

Its a stainless steel or chrome ball rubbing metal to metal with a stainless rod (lawyer link) .

The whole setup is just plain stupid where else in this mechanical world have you seen anything that would drag metal on metal by design? DEE DEE DEE

The current setup needs replaced with a belcrank setup, like hundreds of different model cars and trucks used for 100 years SAFELY

I have a feeling dumbass seen my pictures of the nylon bushings that were pressed into the tubing that was welded to the frame of Wheelmans Hi Performance ATV Pilot and figured that's all he needs haha. Those "hoops" as Wheelman called them were a knee jerk reaction to stop breaking the rack and pinion housing, with the Hi Performance ATV LT under certain circumstances HUGE side loads were put on the end of the rod in the rack and pinion, the nylon bushings were just a bump stop to stop the forces pushing the rod to the point of breaking the rack and pinion housing ....

99.999999% of the time the rod never contacted the self lubricating SOFT nylon bushings, going by memory the bushings I made had a inside diameter .200 larger than the shaft on the rack and pinion... This SAME THEORY is the same type setup you have seen on Engine and transmission mounts on cars they also have LIMIT STOPS that keep the Engine mounts from being taken past their design limits..

IMO the rack and pinion setup on the Hi Performance ATV LT kit is WAY more trouble than its worth IMO the "bump steer" belcrank setup is the way to go, the only downside I see to using one is the steering will feel lose and sloppy sooner because you add 4 more pivot points (hiem joints or ball joints) in a series with the tie rods, get .0005 wear X 8 points in the system and it feels sloppy...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Here are some pictures of the "hoops"


Attachments:
Mvc-876f.jpg
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Mvc-890f.jpg
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
Remember these??? Funny Hoser mentioned 50,000 miles on the back of my trailer. These were the original lawyer links that were supposed to be STAINLESS STEEL!!! These had about 20 minutes of ride time in my front yard, then were loaded up on my trailer for the 2500 mile trip to Oregon. I was told by dseveral of the henchmen/Michigan Mafia that these were Stainless and that the rust was just "surface rust"... I didn't measure when I installed at the house because I had no idea chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts would treat me the way he did!!! Funny thing was when I got home there was a package on my doorstep that had new LAWYER LINKS!!! No explaination or apology included???


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linkwear001.JPG
linkwear001.JPG [ 37.03 KiB | Viewed 2958 times ]
linkwear002.JPG
linkwear002.JPG [ 28.9 KiB | Viewed 2958 times ]
linkwear003.JPG
linkwear003.JPG [ 28.2 KiB | Viewed 2958 times ]
File comment: $2800.00 and counting to work on this thing in a truckstop!!! yea that's why I bought it!!!
linkwear004.JPG
linkwear004.JPG [ 60.15 KiB | Viewed 2958 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Here are some pictures of the "hoops"


chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts sells a kit for pilots that states some welding required! I wish Rooky would post pic's of his set up so we can see if he's using these heims or bushings???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Here are some pictures of the "hoops"


chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts sells a kit for pilots that states some welding required! I wish Rooky would post pic's of his set up so we can see if he's using these heims or bushings???




Hey Turbo, am I "Rooky" I am trying to resize some of my pictures and am going down tomorow to take some more pics of my steering set up for you guys. I've changed a few things since the pics I posted earlier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
buggyfreak34z wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Here are some pictures of the "hoops"


chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts sells a kit for pilots that states some welding required! I wish Rooky would post pic's of his set up so we can see if he's using these heims or bushings???




Hey Turbo, am I "Rooky" I am trying to resize some of my pictures and am going down tomorow to take some more pics of my steering set up for you guys. I've changed a few things since the pics I posted earlier.


No we are not talking bad about you!!! Rookey is aka Hoodlum!!! rookey on here!!! But yea try the resizer thing hoser has as a sticky...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I was in Sac yesterday and was tempted to stay th4 weekend there... I saw the PC course on the site and used the sat image to see the trails!!! Loooks like fun!! But it was way to wet and cold for me... ya call me a wuss...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
Darn sorry I missed ya up here. I just got home today and I'm getting my buggy ready to ride on the dirt tomorrow. We might be getting to race on a track norht of Sac on a regular basis, my buddy is trying to work out the details. Maybe we can catch you up here another time. Well I figured out how to resize some images. So I'll try agian.


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vorra 06ltl.jpg
vorra 06ltl.jpg [ 144.3 KiB | Viewed 2674 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
If you are using the JPG resizer I set mine at 650 and at 75% and they come out decent and about 45 kb's. I have heck uploading anything bigger than that on slow conection...
I was right up there by Marysville but only passing thru. I used to go up thru there alot during warmer months. I don't like snow...LOL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:45 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Camino Ca.
I'm starting to figure this thing out. I don't like how this last picture came out. I'll keep working on it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
We had talked about problem with the tie rod sliding through the hiem, here is a picture of my tie rod on my Pilot you can see where the paint has been chipped and worn away (yellow arrows) by flying debris even though I have a skid plate that extends wider than the frame rails (green arrows) look at the distance from the steering colum (blue arrows) well into the area where mutts hiem joint mounts, 95% of the riding I have done since I last painted my tie rods has been sand, hopefully next trip I will be able to log a few hundred desert miles to see what kind of rock damage I get.

That being said what does common sence tell you, that is if you have any :-)


Attachments:
tie rod paint removal.jpg
tie rod paint removal.jpg [ 79.35 KiB | Viewed 2879 times ]
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