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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
here are a few pics of the progress, we just stuck the shocks and wheels on today to see what it looks like, the suspension is not set yet so please don't tell me its not straight its not done yet.


Attachments:
meatball 020.jpg
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meatball 021.jpg
meatball 021.jpg [ 233.69 KiB | Viewed 883 times ]
meatball 018.jpg
meatball 018.jpg [ 235.22 KiB | Viewed 883 times ]
meatball 016.jpg
meatball 016.jpg [ 230.51 KiB | Viewed 883 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
a few more.


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meatball 022.jpg
meatball 022.jpg [ 234.82 KiB | Viewed 535 times ]
meatball 019.jpg
meatball 019.jpg [ 230.13 KiB | Viewed 536 times ]
meatball 017.jpg
meatball 017.jpg [ 237.22 KiB | Viewed 535 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:03 pm
Posts: 727
I really like the color selection. The black looks great for the frame and the red for the suspension.

Very cool!

Tom


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 Post subject: nice.
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:02 am
Posts: 13
Looking pretty sweet. Nice work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5247
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
That looks real good!!! I like the colors also!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2238
I agree, very nice. Can't wait to see some action vids. I can imagine that with black plastic and a red black widow hourglass!

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Is that a stering stabilizer? If so could you take some pictures so I can see how you have it mounted. I'm working on a lt kit on my pilot and I think im going to need a stabilizer for mine as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
shoubadaba wrote:
Is that a stering stabilizer? If so could you take some pictures so I can see how you have it mounted. I'm working on a lt kit on my pilot and I think im going to need a stabilizer for mine as well.


How about some pictures of your suspension project?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2702
Location: Upland, Ca
Stupid camera broke or someting. I cant get the thing to down load to my laptop now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Ok set up the ATVR long travel today some people where asking about it so im going to show how i do it, there are other ways i know but this is how i do it and it will get you square.

first when you install the components you want to get them in the ballpark you don't want everything to out of whack you can get it pretty close with your eyeball.

now i like to set the suspension where i think its going to be running most of the time, no sense in setting the buggy up at full static height where its never going to be running..... now this is a "GUESS" im guessing at this i could put sensors cameras and track the travel to be exact but this is a trail toy for fun and im guessing, after riding these for years i can tell you the front end is light and doesnt compress that much unless you hit a bump or go through whoops so why set up for that when your only in them for seconds, and i would say the rear runs at half travel most of the time. when i say setup i mean toe in and out, camber, caster, and wheel base not suspension travel, you want suspension travel for whoops and jumps but you don't care where the toe, caster, camber, and wheel base is for those few seconds you want all that set for the terain you ride 80% of the time.

so next step i make struts to hold the suspension where i think its going to be running most of the time, the front shocks are 17 1/4" eye to eye extended with 5 1/2" of travel im guessing it runs most of the the time compressed at 2", so 17 1/4"-2"=15 1/4" that's what im making my front struts at, the rear is 30 1/2" eye to eye extended with 11" of travel im guessing it runs most of the time at 5" of travel so 30 1/2"-5=20 1/2" that's what im making my rear struts at.

now if you don't like this way of doing it skip this part and leave the buggy at static height and follow the rest it will get you set.


Attachments:
File comment: rear shock length
pilot 017.jpg
pilot 017.jpg [ 235.73 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: rear shock travel
pilot 018.jpg
pilot 018.jpg [ 237.81 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: rear strut on buggy
pilot 019.jpg
pilot 019.jpg [ 234.73 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: front strut on buggy
pilot 020.jpg
pilot 020.jpg [ 234.14 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Now you want to find a level spot to do the rest and make sure you set the tire pressure, now i like to work off jack stands it makes it allot easier, so i pick a spot on the frame with the angle finder with the car on the ground and write down the angle, that way when i put it on jack stands i can set the frame at the same angle by adjusting the jack stands.

next, now i like to work like a book from top to bottom from left to right, so i start by setting the caster and camber on the left front, Niell said he likes 1 degree negative camber and 5 degrees positive caster, i set the front at 1/2 to 3/4 negative camber i like a little less, and 5 degrees positive caster, i like positive caster it makes the wheel drive into the ground when you back steer, transferring weight diagonally to the opposite rear wheel helping you save the buggy when your about to spin out, some dirt late model guys run +12 degrees caster but that's on a circle track and there turning left all day.

now set the right front.


Attachments:
File comment: setting caster you turn the wheel out 20 degrees center the bubble then turn the wheel straight and read the degrees.
pilot 009.jpg
pilot 009.jpg [ 233.2 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: you don't need a caster camber gauge you can use a angle finder to check your camber.
pilot 010.jpg
pilot 010.jpg [ 232.25 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: also i set the angle finder on the spindle after i set the caster to 5 degrees, it read 2 degrees so if you don't have a cast camber gauge this will get you close.
pilot 011.jpg
pilot 011.jpg [ 234.32 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: reading camber
pilot 024.jpg
pilot 024.jpg [ 231.91 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: this is the spot i chose to set the angle finder so i could set the chassis angle the same on the jack stands, notice the tape on each side so i could check from the exact same spot.
pilot 023.jpg
pilot 023.jpg [ 234.46 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
now its time to set the toe, first if this had a rack and pinion i would center it but since its a fixed steering wheel you need to lock it down level, i used a pair of vise grips up against the steering stops, nothing worse than a steering wheel that's off. now that the wheel is locked straight i need to set the bump steer kit essentially it is nothing more than a drag link, Neill told me to draw a line through the upper and lower control arm mounts and center the tie rod mount in that line, so if you drew a line through them they would all be centered


Attachments:
File comment: level the wheel
pilot 012.jpg
pilot 012.jpg [ 234.34 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: lock the wheel from moving once you have it centered, the vise grips worked perfect up against the stops.
pilot 013.jpg
pilot 013.jpg [ 233.08 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: here is the string through the upper and lower control arm mounts the pen shows the tie rod mount they should all be inline, string running through the center of all three.
pilot 030.jpg
pilot 030.jpg [ 236.22 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
now that the bump steer kit is set its time to set the toe, to do this i string the centerline of the chassis, to set the left front i run it parallel with the string (centerline of chassis) and lock it down, now to set the toe i measure across the front and back of the toe plates and always adjust my toe from the right front since the left is locked down. i like 1/8" to 1/4" toe out it gives you good feel in the wheel, running straight up or toed in makes the front end darty.


Attachments:
File comment: center by Engine
pilot 014.jpg
pilot 014.jpg [ 231.76 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: center up front
pilot 015.jpg
pilot 015.jpg [ 237.71 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: from centerline to front, the level helped as a straight edge to get to the string easier.
pilot 026.jpg
pilot 026.jpg [ 235.39 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: from ceterline to rear, you just measure from ceterline to front and from center line to rear until your measurements are the same front to back.
pilot 027.jpg
pilot 027.jpg [ 238.48 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: now just go from toe plate to toe plate front to back until the front measurement is 1/8" to 1/4" longer than the rear.
pilot 028.jpg
pilot 028.jpg [ 234.62 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
now that the front is set i move to the left rear, to set the wheel base Neill doesnt have a exact measurement he goes by the shock if its rubbing the rear knuckle lengthen the trailing rod, you want good clearance so the shock doesnt rub i didnt get a pic of this i will add one later, then you just want to make sure each side is the same, the only fixed part on this whole kit is the lower control arms (which i think should have heims because the two pilots i have done this to where a little bent and the only way to get the wheel base straight is to adjust the rear trailing rods it would be nice to adjust a little on the front lower control arms to) now to measure the wheel base i go from the lower ball joint to the shock bracket on the rear knuckle making each side the same.

then i string the left front to the left rear, so they are straight in line, this takes two people one person takes the string and hooks it to the front of the toe plate and pulls it tight at the rear of the buggy and moves the string in toward the buggy until it just touches the back of the toe plate ( this takes some getting use to so try it a few times you will get the hang of it, also pick the person with the steady hand) now the next person measures front to back of the toe plate until the measurements are the same, also you want to be watching the camber i like around 1/4 degree negative in the rear, it takes some time to get all three measurements right you will be turning the radius rods in and out a bunch but you will get it.


Attachments:
File comment: stringing front to rear.
pilot 033.jpg
pilot 033.jpg [ 234.05 KiB | Viewed 544 times ]
File comment: from string to front of toe plate.
pilot 032.jpg
pilot 032.jpg [ 232.56 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: from string to back of toe plate.
pilot 031.jpg
pilot 031.jpg [ 229.25 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
now that you have 3 sides set its time to finish the last corner, you want to set the wheel base by going from the lower ball joint to the shock mount on the knuckle, just make sure you pick the same 2 spots you used on the other side and set the measurement the same as the left side, now you want to set the toe and camber set the camber at a 1/4 degree negative like the other side and set the toe at zero by using the toe plates, and your done.............


Attachments:
File comment: watching the camber while i make adjustments.
pilot 034.jpg
pilot 034.jpg [ 231.61 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
File comment: set the rear toe at zero go front to back from toe plate to toe plate untill both measerments are the same.
pilot 035.jpg
pilot 035.jpg [ 234.96 KiB | Viewed 541 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Now after getting this all done shocks back on and back on the ground there is no way the rear will ride in the 5" compressed range like i guessed it is way to stiff, why would you have 11" of travel and only use 2 or 3"? it needs way softer springs.....


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 Post subject: long travel
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 700
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Excellent write up so far, really learning alot and looking forward to learning even more...thanks....


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 Post subject: Re: long travel
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22131
Location: Chicago
Lonerider wrote:
Excellent write up so far, really learning alot and looking forward to learning even more...thanks....


Ditto, great stuff, I need to let him do a alignment on the front of my Pilot.. The rear is not adjustable :-(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
after taking the struts off and putting the shocks and tires back on and putting it back on the ground, i did not realize how much camber gain there would be in 5" of travel now that the buggy is at static height it gained 1 1/4 degrees of negative camber i don't like the way its sitting, i ordered new spring for the rear today, im going allot softer hoping to get more travel, so when they come in and i have the rear apart im going to put the rear struts back on and adjust the camber to 1/4 positive instead of 1/4 negative so it will take a 1/2 degree out at static height.


Attachments:
File comment: to much camber at static height.
pilot 002.jpg
pilot 002.jpg [ 231.2 KiB | Viewed 550 times ]
pilot 024.jpg
pilot 024.jpg [ 234.59 KiB | Viewed 550 times ]
pilot 003.jpg
pilot 003.jpg [ 235.71 KiB | Viewed 550 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:30 pm
Posts: 481
Location: Nebraska
afastcar wrote:
Now after getting this all done shocks back on and back on the ground there is no way the rear will ride in the 5" compressed range like i guessed it is way to stiff, why would you have 11" of travel and only use 2 or 3"? it needs way softer springs.....


So are you dropping the 125 lb tender springs down and getting different softer tenders like 100 lb ?
Or are you replacing both ?

This has come up a few times in the past and most everyone agrees that ATVR sets the LT up Way to Stiff...

Looks great so far - thanks for the updates...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
FL670R wrote:
afastcar wrote:
Now after getting this all done shocks back on and back on the ground there is no way the rear will ride in the 5" compressed range like i guessed it is way to stiff, why would you have 11" of travel and only use 2 or 3"? it needs way softer springs.....


So are you dropping the 125 lb tender springs down and getting different softer tenders like 100 lb ?
Or are you replacing both ?

This has come up a few times in the past and most everyone agrees that ATVR sets the LT up Way to Stiff...

Looks great so far - thanks for the updates...


this has two 175lbs springs stacked, after using the swayaway calculator and reading some other posts i decided to go with a 150 on the bottom and a 95 on the top, it might still be to stiff but i was afraid to go to far.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
got the new springs in today so i redid the rear, after putting it back on jack stands and taking the tires off i bolted the toe plates back on to get a more accurate reading of the camber at static height, it gained more camber than i thought, with the struts on compressed at 5" i set it at 1/4 degree negative, and with the shocks on at static height it was at 3 degrees negative, so it gained 2 3/4" degrees of camber in 5", so i decided to split the difference i put the struts back on and set the camber at plus 1 1/4 degrees and then put the shocks back on and checked it, it came out to a little over negative 1 1/4 degrees, it sits much more to my liking now, and with the new springs it has more travel and feels softer, i wont be able to tell until we ride it for sure.


Attachments:
File comment: new springs.
pilot 049.jpg
pilot 049.jpg [ 236.81 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
File comment: sits better now.
pilot 025.jpg
pilot 025.jpg [ 233.81 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
i didnt have pics before but this is how i check the wheel base, i run the tape from the lower ball joint to the shock mount on the rear knuckle, checking both sides, the measurements should be the same if not your buggy is bent.


Attachments:
File comment: tape at the front ball joint.
pilot 040.jpg
pilot 040.jpg [ 234.17 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
File comment: i read it where the black shock mount plate bolts to the red knuckle. make sure you measure in the same spot on both sides.
pilot 042.jpg
pilot 042.jpg [ 235.02 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
if your buggy is bent you can find out where, if its the front or back, all you have to do is pick a spot on the frame that's the same on both sides and pull some measurements. i use the lap belt mounts they are in the same place on both sides and close to the middle of the buggy, i measure from the center of the lap mount to the center of the lower ball joint doing each side if the measurements are not the same you know the front is bent, to measure the rear i go from the center of the lap belt to the mount on the knuckle.


Attachments:
File comment: center of lap belt mount to center of lower control arm.
pilot 044.jpg
pilot 044.jpg [ 235.8 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
File comment: center of lower control arm to center of lap belt mount.
pilot 045.jpg
pilot 045.jpg [ 233.66 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
File comment: center of lap belt mount to rear mount on knuckle.
pilot 048.jpg
pilot 048.jpg [ 232.25 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
File comment: rear mount on knuckle to center of lap belt.
pilot 047.jpg
pilot 047.jpg [ 234.85 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
some pics of the plastic mock up.


Attachments:
pilot 032.jpg
pilot 032.jpg [ 232.88 KiB | Viewed 506 times ]
pilot 033.jpg
pilot 033.jpg [ 234.82 KiB | Viewed 506 times ]
pilot 034.jpg
pilot 034.jpg [ 234.88 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
pilot 035.jpg
pilot 035.jpg [ 233.79 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
pilot 036.jpg
pilot 036.jpg [ 234.37 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
pilot 037.jpg
pilot 037.jpg [ 235.03 KiB | Viewed 505 times ]
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