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 Post subject: Honda CR500 Rod
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
For years I have been told that there is no CR 500 rod available from Honda
you have to buy the whole crank to get one, once again I find out those that
think they know what they are talking about actually don't know what they
are talking about, once agian their flamboyant writing style cant cover up
their error, here is the Honda CR500 Rod kit part number.

I bought this rod as a Pilot replacement, rather than just blindly sending my crank
out and have the CR500 rod installed as others have advised me I decided to
just order the rod and see what all the hoopla is about, rumors about there
being one more or bigger bearings on the big end of the rod are just not
true, I found this out by laying the parts in my hands not by taking someone
elses word for it then spreading it all over the internet.

Here is what I found.

First I took the old 400 rod and the new 500 rod to the post office and had them
weigh them on their scale, the 500 rod weighs 10.6 ounces the 400 rod weighs
9.0 oz the 400 rod is a full 1.6 oz less than the 500 rod.

The 500 rod is 4mm wider on the small end.

You cant use the 500 bearing in the 500 rod when using the 400 piston.

Distributor Part Number(s):
Western Powersports #: 421-8139
Parts Unlimited #: CR166
Tucker Rocky #: 162280
Marshall #: Nov-58
Southern #: HR008139
Advantage Performance #: 19400-07
OE Part Number(s):
HONDA: 13200-ML3-305
HONDA: 13200-ML3-680
HONDA: 13300-MAC-680
HONDA: 13300-ML3-910
HONDA: 13300-ML3-911
For Models:1987 - 2001 Honda CR 500R

Technical Specifications:
Big End Bearing (mm):26x34x20
Big End Bore (mm):34.00
Big End Width (mm):19.75
Center To Center (mm):144.00
Pin Diameter (mm):26.00
Pin Length (mm):67.50
Small End Bearing (mm):20x25x28
Small End Bore (mm):25.00
Small End Width (mm):23.98
Washer Thickness (mm):1.5


Attachments:
500 rod kit.jpg
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
In this picture you can see the width difference.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
The 500 rod with the 500 bearing will just not fit the 400 piston.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Here is the 500 rod with a 400 bearing installed in the 400 piston.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
IMO if you don't have the CR500 modification or are running a CR500 big bore kit when you
replace the rod on the crank you should be installing the 400 rod as a replacement, there is
no doubt that the 500 rod is a stronger and heaver rod but I see no need or advantage in
using the 500 rod (adding weight) I have never seen a 400 rod break I am sure they have
it just does not seem to be something that happens enough to seek out a stronger rod,
I have never seen a small end of the rod break or even have a bearing failure, I am
sure they have failed but I bet it was due to someone reusing the old bearing during a
top end rebuild, when I remove mine they look new and have no measurable wear,
they are tempting to reuse but I install new, there is less side clearance with the small
end of the 500 rod in the piston this might even limit or reduce the ability for the small
end bearing to receive lubrication and actually shorten the small end bearing life because
of the extra rod width shrouding the wrist pin and bearing.

1.6 ounces of weight don't sound like much weight but try moving 1.6 ounces up and down
80mm 133 times a second, I bet after a few minutes you would not want to carry the extra
weight, I see NO advantage only disadvantages in installing one in the 400 Engine, I would
say if you had a 500 conversion you need to run it, a common mod is to reduce the reciprocating
weight of a Engine, Engine builders will lighten the rod and remove excess weight (grams)
from the piston to increase performance and extend it life (piston speed VS mass) so I might
install a 400 rod in my CR500 conversion and see how long it lasted, what I have seen fail the
most on the 400 rod is the bearing, I have never seen the big end of the rod break not to
say it has not happen I just see the weak part as the bearing and the bearing is the same
the 400 uses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:32 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Seattle, WA
Reminds me of the "There are no left front fenders available from Honda" postings.

I am also willing to bet many of the so-called discontinued, unavailable, etc, etc. etc... parts are still around somewhere. The key is finding them. Perhaps they are not at the local Honda parts depot/wherehouse, but they might be sitting on the shelf at some other Honda dealer or a part number was changed and the ordering dealer does not have the latest number. There are a ton of reasons....

I recall having to replace the crank in my 1990 Pilot, in 1993, and having the dealer say it was discontinued and unavailable and I was SOL. 3 mths later, I get a call stating the crank arrived; perhaps they should have said it was backordered.


DP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
I was told by many so called experts on the subject and by no less than 3
Honda Dealers including Hillside there was no rod kit made, the guy that
rebuilt Pilotman and my Pilot cranks gave me the number, he has rebuilt
dozens of CR500 cranks with Honda CR500 rod kits, he is same guy that
design and build this turbo crank for a KX80
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/turbocrank.htm

People need to be careful how they phrase or word something ( I try to), they
should have been saying "I tried like hell to find a Honda part number but couldnt" not
telling others "the only way to get a CR500 rod from Honda is to buy the whole crank" or
"Honda does not make a replacement rod for the CR500" ALL the info on the
CR500 rod and the CR500 crank/rod modification was spoke as matter of fact,
now I find out it was gibberish or someone pandering hype :-)

Want to buy a CR500 rod? I am going to rebuild my other 2 Pilot cranks with the
400 rod from Honda... Perhaps someone with the 500 mod can use it?

How is the Drakart?

Drak pictures?

Any Drak mods yet?

Drakman will kick your arse with his !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:30 pm
Posts: 481
Location: Nebraska
hoser wrote:

<Snip>

Want to buy a CR500 rod? I am going to rebuild my other 2 Pilot cranks with the
400 rod from Honda... Perhaps someone with the 500 mod can use it?

How is the Drakart?

Drak pictures?

Any Drak mods yet?

Drakman will kick your arse with his !


Hold on to that rod I may buy it from ya...

As one of my stories go I am running a stock FL400 Rod with a CR500 top end in the BAD500
It recently went PoofKaBoom - I haven't torn into it yet and I doubt that it was a rod failure

One thing I did notice when I orignally put it together was (taken from my notes) that the 500 wrist pin is the same diameter as the 400cc (20mm or .78") and I believe the pin bearing is the same as the stock 400cc, BUT the 500cc pin is 2mm shorter than the 400cc pin (400 pin length is 62mm and 500 pin length is 60mm)

I could not find it in my notes but I remember that the narrower FL400 small rod end had lots of extra room between the CR500 piston shoulders.
At the time I guessed it wouldn't be an issue since the piston should always be centered by the cylinder.

kinda the exact oppsite of Hosers picture of the CR500 Rod in the FL400 piston...

Gosh I hope I worded everything carefully...

Dennis


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
I don't think the extra room between the rod and sides of the piston will do any harm
since you have the side bearings that limit how far the rod can move from side to
side how ever what keeps the top end bearing from walking side to side on the small
end of the rod, if you use the narrow 400 bearing on the 500 piston can it walk off to
one side reducing the amount of bearing surface area?

"Gosh I hope I worded everything carefully... " Sounds to me that your speaking from
your actual experience not just regurgitating something you heard or read some place
else :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:32 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Seattle, WA
The Drakart is great, I just wish I had here with me so I could ride it. My '89 Pilot, the Drak and trailer are in So Cal and I'm in Seattle as I do not have any room at the house to store it and I cannot justify paying $70-$80/mth for storage, so I'm leaving it in So Cal for now. I'm looking at a flatbed so I can bring the Drak up here to ride. My priorities lately have been to get moved and get the house built. Now that is out of the way I should be able to make some more mods to the car.

Here's what I've done so far:

Adjusted the driven clutch so the Engine isn't running, what seemed to be, at redline . Now it's in the powerband and runs much better. While I haven't measured it with my GPS, the top end seems to be higher. Hopefully this season, I'll get a chance to find out.

Installed a GPS mount.

Installing a dead pedal to the left of the brake so my foot won't rest on the brake pedal.

Cut down the width of brake pedal as my shoe or boot would occasionally rest on the pedal. There isn't much room between the frame and brake pedal.

Replaced the stock air filter and air box with a cone shaped filter and outerwear. Engine breathes much better, not to mention it doesn't sound like a Hoover anymore! Acceleration was definitely improved. I didn't have my GPS working to know by how much, but the ever faithful "seat of the pants" method works for me. ;)

Next I'll be installing the power programer, which is nothing more than a reostat to adjust the voltage at the air temp sensor, thus fooling the computer as to the actual air temp. Spcled has one, says it works great.

Respliced and rerouted the Engine wiring harness to ensure I do not have any chafe points and to clean up the appearance.

Towards the end of last season, I bought some additional rear wheels and some 26" Sand Blaster paddles from Sand Tires Unlimited. As I ride almost exclusively at Glamis, it was a needed modification.

Might start making some drive clutch adjustments to improve acceleration.

Haven't taken any more pics since the first round. Now that I'm moved in, my home computer is hooked up, I can start using my digital camera again. Will try to get some when I get back down to CA, but it probably won't be until after T-Day.

I see you've dropped the Pilot Engine in favor of a twin Rotax? Last I read, you were adjusting it, how did it turn out?

DP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
I hope your done moving for a while too bad your so far from Glamis :-(

440 is working good I have the Engine out now so I can do some mods to the
Engine mount it seem to be flexing so once I add a stiffner it sould cure it, I also
need drill some holes in other areas to remove excess weight then it can be painted
and should be good to go. Next mod will be to change the driven clutch out
for something adjustable I am thinking a 350 driven or its replacement the Comet
90D the stadium lites used them so they should work for me also.

You heard from Pilotcat? I need his phone number if you have it?
Need to order more Amsoil for next season and see what is new on his end,
havent heard from him in so long...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:32 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Seattle, WA
Me too!!! This moving is for the birds, but you know how it is, you go where there is a job.

27hrs to Glamis from here....I usually drive it but occasionally get a cheap flight and rent a truck to tow my trailer. With all the dune systems up here, I'm anxious to get a cheap flatbed so I don't have to drive as far.

Last number I had for 00000000 E-mail: pointer@willinet.net Haven't heard from him a long time as well, last I heard, he sold all his Pilots. He had something like 6 of them!

DP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:30 pm
Posts: 481
Location: Nebraska
hoser wrote:
I don't think the extra room between the rod and sides of the piston will do any harm
since you have the side bearings that limit how far the rod can move from side to
side.
How ever what keeps the top end bearing from walking side to side on the small
end of the rod, if you use the narrow 400 bearing on the 500 piston, can it walk off to
one side reducing the amount of bearing surface area?


If I'm reading this right I don't think I have an issue.
I used the CR500 pin and top bearing, I believe the bearing almost touches each side of the piston's shoulders but since the top end of the FL400 rod is narrower than the CR500 some of the top bearing is sticking out each side of the upper rod end...

Yes I do believe you are correct about a narrow 400 bearing on the 500 piston it could walk partly off one side of the upper rod - which would not be good...

I had a old CR500 piston and an old FL400 piston with upper bearings laying out in my shop up until about 3 months ago when I had a cleaning fit and they got tossed... (Damn the luck)

Disclaimer - some of this was from my old rustly memory...

Dennis


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
I think Bigtom has a 500 piston perhaps he could snap some pictures with the 400 and 500 bearings
and measure the width between the pin boss?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Anybody want to buy this CR500 rod kit I have no use for it at this time, 100 bux donation to this web site and its yours I will include shipping to any place inside the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Honda CR500 Rod
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 266
I’ll buy it if its available and you knock all the dust off.


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 Post subject: Re: Honda CR500 Rod
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
slickrick wrote:
I’ll buy it if its available and you knock all the dust off.



Sorry that's long gone most the parts you need I sourced here viewforum.php?f=37
please update them pages as you find stuff


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 Post subject: Re: Honda CR500 Rod
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:40 pm
Posts: 266
hoser wrote:
slickrick wrote:
I’ll buy it if its available and you knock all the dust off.



Sorry that's long gone most the parts you need I sourced here viewforum.php?f=37" ."..
please update them pages as you find stuff



Copy that sir. I was just curious as to what rod manufacture would be best. I know the question has been asked a thousand times, as to what would be considered the best replacement and figured a Honda rod would be best.


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