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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
so first thing i did was a leak test on it. put 8lbs in it and started to leak down right away. with in 5 mins it was down to 4lbs. so next i took the head off and cylinder off. this was an original art piston 79mm bore. my first thoughts are that with the air leak it just ran lean until it couldn't run anymore


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
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Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
more pictures


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
I couldnt tell,what is that pic of where the air is leaking out?


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
that's right where the two cases join together and the base gasket for cylinder meet.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
If you figure out what caused your failure please post.

I have blown two motors and my brother has blown one.
Both my poofkabooms look exactly like yours.
I don't really know what caused my second failure. motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) held pressure for five days. Possibly oil mix issue. Was running 50 to 1 just
like the OIL SALESMAN told me to do. Dumb me.
First poofkaboom caused by previous owner boo boo that I didn't know about. (open vaccum port for fuel pump).
What oil mix ratio were you running?????


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Havin trouble with my computer Just like my motors.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22516
Location: Chicago
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
hoser wrote:
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm



octane--only run 91 octane that's the highest we have up here. mixed with motul oil 40:1

mods- 39mm pwk, power pros pipe, uni filter open air box, hoserized cylinder 79mm bore. i did notice that compression was lower last time i check 110-115. was planning on putting new rings on.

jetting- 180 main jet and 45 slow jet, needle on middle clip.

that leak was the only visible leak i could see and hear. i haven't pulled the balanceer cover or mag cover off yet to check the seals yet.

you have any ideas of what might have happened


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22516
Location: Chicago
fully wrote:
hoser wrote:
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm



octane--only run 91 octane that's the highest we have up here. mixed with motul oil 40:1

mods- 39mm pwk, power pros pipe, uni filter open air box, hoserized cylinder 79mm bore. i did notice that compression was lower last time i check 110-115. was planning on putting new rings on.

jetting- 180 main jet and 45 slow jet, needle on middle clip.

that leak was the only visible leak i could see and hear. i haven't pulled the balanceer cover or mag cover off yet to check the seals yet.

you have any ideas of what might have happened


How was your jetting?
Have you ever kept installing bigger main jets until you can get it to blubber at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) then work back down then keep raising the needle until its over rich in the mid range?

What plug?

8 psi to 4 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak I would be looking at other things.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
only time it blubbers is when i have the air box cover on. it will clean out but take a long time. never really played with the needle much.
always run a br9 ngk plug
heres pic of the plug before

what else do you think i should be looking at


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 35
wow, that's a lot of scoring. and the piston looks like it ran extremely hot at the exhaust port side.. I am sure Hoser has a good idea of what causes that.

to me it looks like now oil was in the mix.. but, me and 2 strokes have a bad history.. so I don't even try to diagnosis this creature.. I leave it up to a pro like Hoser

Brian B


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
hoser wrote:
fully wrote:
hoser wrote:
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm



octane--only run 91 octane that's the highest we have up here. mixed with motul oil 40:1

mods- 39mm pwk, power pros pipe, uni filter open air box, hoserized cylinder 79mm bore. i did notice that compression was lower last time i check 110-115. was planning on putting new rings on.

jetting- 180 main jet and 45 slow jet, needle on middle clip.

that leak was the only visible leak i could see and hear. i haven't pulled the balanceer cover or mag cover off yet to check the seals yet.

you have any ideas of what might have happened


How was your jetting?
Have you ever kept installing bigger main jets until you can get it to blubber at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) then work back down then keep raising the needle until its over rich in the mid range?

What plug?

8 psi to 4 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak I would be looking at other things.


Really? I could have sworn I read on here that it should hold at 10 psi for at least 20 minutes,im actualy shocked your saying 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak.Im not saying you don't know what your talking about,I"m just surprised that you don't think that's a big leak


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22516
Location: Chicago
redskinman wrote:
hoser wrote:
fully wrote:
hoser wrote:
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm



octane--only run 91 octane that's the highest we have up here. mixed with motul oil 40:1

mods- 39mm pwk, power pros pipe, uni filter open air box, hoserized cylinder 79mm bore. i did notice that compression was lower last time i check 110-115. was planning on putting new rings on.

jetting- 180 main jet and 45 slow jet, needle on middle clip.

that leak was the only visible leak i could see and hear. i haven't pulled the balanceer cover or mag cover off yet to check the seals yet.

you have any ideas of what might have happened


How was your jetting?
Have you ever kept installing bigger main jets until you can get it to blubber at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) then work back down then keep raising the needle until its over rich in the mid range?

What plug?

8 psi to 4 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak I would be looking at other things.


Really? I could have sworn I read on here that it should hold at 10 psi for at least 20 minutes,im actualy shocked your saying 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak.Im not saying you don't know what your talking about,I"m just surprised that you don't think that's a big leak



Its not a big leak when you look at the big picture, and leaking out 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes is not a acceptable leak either, the goal is to have a leak free Engine, I just don't want him to rebuild the Engine assuming the sole cause of the poofkaboom was the air leak then have a poofkaboom happen again.

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem unless he had some really poor fuel, I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot Visit these two links and have a look both those leaks would not hold 10 psi for only a few seconds both were driven until a problem was discovered, http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm even after discovering my Pilot was leaking I drove it from one end of the dunes at Little Sahara to the other to get back to camp, drove it on the trailer then drove it off the trailer into my shop when I got home, look at the crowns of the pistons and the heads.

Fatcats 350 was leaking worse than 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes look at its piston and head viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9826

I would be talking to others in his area that use 91 octane in ATV's see what others think and are saying, sales on high octane fuels world wide are way down maybe the 91 octane he bought has been in the tanks so long its no longer 91 octane? Time to seek out another gas station that has documented proof they are a high volume 91 octane seller?

Guys running high compression 4 stroke ATV's and bikes and are normally running 91 octane should be able to notice and detonation problems right away from the excess heat between their legs if they have a after market exhaust they will never hear it, not much use in talking to guys that race most them burn so little fuel they all run race gas then you get the lecture on how you should only run race gas bla bla bla total waste of your time talking to most racers trying to sell the same snake oils they use...

Ran across this the other day while researching http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm I always thought adding 2 cycle oil to gas make it harder to ignite (same affect as higher octane) not easier to ignite (same affect as lower octane) , trying to get confirmation on this.

Always knew about losing octane to storage and age, recall reading some place the parts of the fuel that give it higher octane evaporate at a faster rate than the rest of the crapola that makes up "gasoline"


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
hoser wrote:
redskinman wrote:
hoser wrote:
fully wrote:
hoser wrote:
Well that sucks.

What octane gas were you running?

Mods?

Jetting?

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm



octane--only run 91 octane that's the highest we have up here. mixed with motul oil 40:1

mods- 39mm pwk, power pros pipe, uni filter open air box, hoserized cylinder 79mm bore. i did notice that compression was lower last time i check 110-115. was planning on putting new rings on.

jetting- 180 main jet and 45 slow jet, needle on middle clip.

that leak was the only visible leak i could see and hear. i haven't pulled the balanceer cover or mag cover off yet to check the seals yet.

you have any ideas of what might have happened


How was your jetting?
Have you ever kept installing bigger main jets until you can get it to blubber at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) then work back down then keep raising the needle until its over rich in the mid range?

What plug?

8 psi to 4 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak I would be looking at other things.


Really? I could have sworn I read on here that it should hold at 10 psi for at least 20 minutes,im actualy shocked your saying 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes is not a big leak.Im not saying you don't know what your talking about,I"m just surprised that you don't think that's a big leak



Its not a big leak when you look at the big picture, and leaking out 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes is not a acceptable leak either, the goal is to have a leak free Engine, I just don't want him to rebuild the Engine assuming the sole cause of the poofkaboom was the air leak then have a poofkaboom happen again.

I don't think that small of a leak was the problem unless he had some really poor fuel, I have sucked a cylinder gasket 2x on a Pilot Visit these two links and have a look both those leaks would not hold 10 psi for only a few seconds both were driven until a problem was discovered, http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket.htm and http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cylindergasket1.htm even after discovering my Pilot was leaking I drove it from one end of the dunes at Little Sahara to the other to get back to camp, drove it on the trailer then drove it off the trailer into my shop when I got home, look at the crowns of the pistons and the heads.

Fatcats 350 was leaking worse than 4 to 8 psi in 5 minutes look at its piston and head viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9826" ."..

I would be talking to others in his area that use 91 octane in ATV's see what others think and are saying, sales on high octane fuels world wide are way down maybe the 91 octane he bought has been in the tanks so long its no longer 91 octane? Time to seek out another gas station that has documented proof they are a high volume 91 octane seller?

Guys running high compression 4 stroke ATV's and bikes and are normally running 91 octane should be able to notice and detonation problems right away from the excess heat between their legs if they have a after market exhaust they will never hear it, not much use in talking to guys that race most them burn so little fuel they all run race gas then you get the lecture on how you should only run race gas bla bla bla total waste of your time talking to most racers trying to sell the same snake oils they use...

Ran across this the other day while researching http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm" .".. I always thought adding 2 cycle oil to gas make it harder to ignite (same affect as higher octane) not easier to ignite (same affect as lower octane) , trying to get confirmation on this.

Always knew about losing octane to storage and age, recall reading some place the parts of the fuel that give it higher octane evaporate at a faster rate than the rest of the crapola that makes up "gasoline"


OK,I got ya now :-)


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
I would add oil and go up 1 or 2 jet sizes from where you are now. Looks like it had too little oil, or ran too lean for too long.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
http://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/ ... ange%5D=21
Image

this is the oil that i have been using. maybe i should switch back to ams oil????

i bought the oil and the premium fuel 91 octane that friday on way out of town. i mixed it 500ml oil to 20L gas=40:1
40:1 if my math is right is 2.5% oil to gas
32:1 is 3.125%
every dirt bike in the past the i had, this is how i mixed my fuel, but i used ams oil instead.

we rode hard for probably an hour, hour and a half before it blew. lots of wide open running

so you guys think it was maybe bad gas that caused it
or just ran too lean too long..
or is it possible that the timing is off, but if it was wouldn't i notice that something wasn't right

on good note, i got the 360 in and need to start doing some heat cycles on it. but i am going to get some bigger jets


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
I would say your jetting was a little on the lean side to run it hard for an hour with alot of WOT (Wide Open Throttle) runs. I say run it at 32:1 and go up a jet or 2 and it should handle your hard riding a little better. Always better to run on the fat side.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
I am thinking of doing the twin filter mod instead of leaving the lid off on the air box all the time. That will make it run fatter just by doing that. But yeah I think your right it was run lean to long. Might have been a small air leak but still sucking unwanted air in on a jet that might have been on the lean side already.


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