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looking at another fl250
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18496		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  obrut [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  looking at another fl250
I'm looking at a 83 fl250 that starts and idles but will not accelerate. The guy changed the stator and other ignition parts (his words) when he bought it because it did not run at all, no spark.

He said that it will now start up and idle but will not accelerate. When he pulls the throttle lever the RPMs do not go up and he said it seems like its not getting gas. He rebuilt the carb and check that the throttle opens all the way when he pulls the throttle lever. The gas tank is clean, new plug and good (his words) compression.

Is it possible the timing is off? Can the ignition be installed wrong on these?

I have a list of things that I would check if I buy it but just trying to remember what the ignition looks like.
Author:  rmesser [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
The 83 is CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) - not likely that is the problem , but ya never know, anything is possible.

I would focus on the fuel system first. Verify the pump is moving the required amount of fuel. Details will be in the manual

Could be restricted or bad fuel pump, poorly connected pulse line to the fuel pump, clogged filter, clogged pickup tubes in the fuel tank.

I would also loosen the exhaust at the manifold to see if it is plugged.

Fresh fuel is recommended mixed with a quality 2 cycle oil at 32: to 1 - some guys run less at 40 to 1 or even 50 to 1. I like golden spectro premix oil.

look at the intake manifold for cracks.

just because the carb is rebuild does not mean it is right.

I'm sure CO will chime in soon. he has good ides.
Author:  obrut [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Thanks, I'm going to look at it tomorrow. Looks like it has a goki starter that's included, I'm not sure if all of the parts are there for it, I will check tomorrow.

Has anyone started making replacement parts for the goki starter kits yet?
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
I am not really sure what you are saying here so I might be confusing "will not accelerate" with "will not rev up".
Which is it ??
Author:  obrut [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
ya I was trying to understand that too.

He said that when he pulls the throttle lever that the Engine will not rev up and the odyssey wont move. I asked if it rev at all and he said the revs go up a little and that's it. Its like the throttle isnt opening like it should, but he said he checked that.

He said that he can push it and it will roll, so the gear box isn't locked up.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
obrut wrote:
ya I was trying to understand that too.

He said that when he pulls the throttle lever that the Engine will not rev up and the odyssey wont move. I asked if it rev at all and he said the revs go up a little and that's it. Its like the throttle isnt opening like it should, but he said he checked that.

He said that he can push it and it will roll, so the gear box isn't locked up.


Looks like your going to have go see for yourself.
It can't be the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) or the shear pin because it wouldn't even start. Also even if the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) didn't change the timing curve it would still rev up but not run well at the top end so I gota call bullshyt on the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition).
Right now my money is in a carb issue if the Engine don't rev.
If the Engine revs but machine don't move then its a belt issue or a clutch issue.

Goki --- they are out of business and I don't think anyone is making parts.
Author:  Garemie [ Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
These machines are so simple. You know it's got spark if it runs, you know it's not timed (terribly) wrong if it runs, and you know it has fuel if it runs. It sounds to me like he has the wrong jet or didn't really rebuild carb correctly..

I am with rmesser, check fuel delivery first, verify fuel pump flow. Next is to check the carb jetting, not a bad idea to check yourself anyways.
Author:  obrut [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
I bought it, and one of the main reasons I bought it was the goki starter kit was complete. The only part missing from the machine is the spark arrestor in the exhaust, everything thing else is there to be a complete and original. The seat is tore up and covered in tape and the fenders are a little beat up.

I started to take it apart last night to check a few things and decided just to pull the Engine out and give everything a once over. Looking through the intake and exhaust I can see the piston looks like its in great shape. The carb looks clean and the throttle lever does pull the slide completely open.

So I'm going to start with a few things;
Leak down test on the Engine
Pull gas tank - drain and clean tank
test full pump or replace - I have a new aftermarket one that came with the other odyssey I bought
Check the fuel line check valve
Replace pull starter rope
New plug, air filter, fuel filter and fuel line
Clean and inspect the carb

The starter wiring looks really bad, I'm going to leave the starter installed and rewire after I get it running.

After just a quick look at everything last night I think the problem could be the gas oil mix. There is oil running out of the end of the exhaust and a big oil mess by the exhaust port on the head. The exhaust was definitely not sealing on the gasket. The spark plug is new but covered in oil. I think he had the gas mixed with way too much oil. When I drain the gas from the take is there a way to tell?

The only major problem I found was half the bolt hole on one of the holes is broken on the Engine case where the starter attaches.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
obrut wrote:
The carb looks clean and the throttle lever does pull the slide completely open.

The starter wiring looks really bad, I'm going to leave the starter installed and rewire after I get it running.

After just a quick look at everything last night I think the problem could be the gas oil mix. There is oil running out of the end of the exhaust and a big oil mess by the exhaust port on the head. The exhaust was definitely not sealing on the gasket. The spark plug is new but covered in oil. I think he had the gas mixed with way too much oil. When I drain the gas from the take is there a way to tell?

The only major problem I found was half the bolt hole on one of the holes is broken on the Engine case where the starter attaches.


Congrats on the new purchase.
1) Slide not completely open ----- "well there's your problem"
2) Starter wiring ----- I'd fix it right away because you don't need a fire or short circuit.
3) Oil mix ----- "well there's your problem"

PICS MAN PICS --- get with the program :-)
Author:  rmesser [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
reread that Co - he says the slide does open all the way.
Author:  obrut [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Yep the slide did open all of the way.

The Engine passed a vac and pressure test and that's as far as I got. Should I order 3/16" fuel line or 1/4"?

I'm going to try and weld a tab back on the Engine case for the pull start bolt before I install the Engine.

I'll post some pics tomorrow or Friday, thanks for the help.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
rmesser wrote:
reread that Co - he says the slide does open all the way.


Yup my bad.
I read things fast and that turns out bad for me many times.
Doing things fast is dangerous.
Author:  obrut [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
I now know why he wasn't using the goki starter to start it. The starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is junk, the end that holds the bendix is stripped. I did a search for a replacement and read that a yamaha one might fit, https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/y ... 7pEALw_wcB

anyone know if that one works or have a part number for a replacement?
Author:  canadian oddy [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
obrut wrote:
I now know why he wasn't using the goki starter to start it. The starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is junk, the end that holds the bendix is stripped.


Pics man Pics

Do you have a lathe ?? Tools ??
Can you fix what you got ??
If no then maybe the local machine shop can fix it ??
Author:  Garemie [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
obrut wrote:
I now know why he wasn't using the goki starter to start it. The starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is junk, the end that holds the bendix is stripped. I did a search for a replacement and read that a yamaha one might fit, https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/y ... 7pEALw_wcB

anyone know if that one works or have a part number for a replacement?



If you do find a replacement starter that works, PLEASE come back and post your findings. This is a big issue and a ton of people Google this question with little to no answers out there.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Apparently the goki starter is an issue here so I will post all the info I have on my computer about it.
Below is all I got:

Goki starters for the FL250:
Mtndaisy
Post subject: Re: Goki starter
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016

Hi RJ1
I saw your post here and as a former GOKI employee, can shed some light and In case you have not yet located a spool hub for your Odyssey, pass along some info that might be helpful.
1st- GOKI Mfg Co is sadly, no longer in business. The shop closed when The owner/operator became very ill and was hospitalized late last fall. That closing became permanent when he passed away just before the end of the year.
2nd- All OS100 kits (Odyssey electric start kits) along with any extra parts we had in stock at that time, were sold to OddATV in NY.
The phone number for OddATV is 631-737-3340 ask for Joe.
The last I knew, he was talking with a friend of the owner of GOKI, also a machinist, hoping to continue the manufacturing of some of GOKI's Odyssey parts. One of those being the spool hubs. Whether That plan came to fruition, I'm not sure. But he may still have parts from what he got from GOKI stock back in January.
So, if you haven't found your hub spacer, I'd say Joe/OddATV is your best bet.
Hope this helps.
Take care. ☺

Taken from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16706

Attachments:
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Author:  canadian oddy [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Oddatv is still showing new starters at $185
https://oddatv.com/goki-electric-start-kits/
Author:  obrut [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
I had time this weekend to work on the odyssey. I pulled the flywheel/magneto off to check the stator and it is all new. I think I know what happened before this guy bought it. It looks like the nut from the goki starter came off and bounced around inside for a long time eventually finding its way into the coils under the flywheel. He gave me the old stator and one of the coils had windings that were broken. So he replaced the stator and the entire machine wiring harness and then never got it running right.

So here what I did so far,
Vaccum and pressure tested Engine and it passed
I welded a tab back on the Engine case, replaced the pull cord, cleaned everything and assembled.
I checked the carb and its clean and has 58 idle and 120 main jet.
I pulled the tank and its clean and the valve and lines in the tank are clean and working.
I replaced all of the fuel lines and fuel filter, it had about 6 different size lines and most were dry rotted.
I installed the Engine and carb, checked that it had spark and it did. I put some fuel in the line going to the carb, gave it a few pulls and it fired right up. I pulled the throttle and sure enough it did nothing, just like the guy said. It was like the throttle cable was not pulling the slide. I still have the air cleaner off and I can see the slide pulls all of the way open.

Tomorrow I'm going to mix new gas and oil and fill the tank so I can check the fuel pump. Then I can start it a have it running while I check a few more things. I did find that the fuel line T is not working, air will pass through in all directions. Do they break or just stick from sitting too long?

The only thing I saw that didn't look right was the jet needle looks different then I remember, maybe its too long?

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Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
If u are sucking air that’s ur issue. I would replace the tee prior to any further testing because it will be lean if sucking air and it won’t take much to damage ur top end. Just my 2cents.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Ok something really smells here.
You got fuel -- you got spark -- you got air -- it starts and idles.

That tells me this thing is not breathing.
Is your exhaust pipe plugged because it is all oiled up ??
Mouse nest ??
Remove the muffler and try it again.
Author:  obrut [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
CO when I ran it today it was without the muffler on so its not a muffler problem.

FloridaEdd I just filled the line to the carb with fuel until it filled the bowl and then had fuel in the line and ran it that way. The tank is empty because I didn't gas and oil to mix. Tomorrow I will try it again with the gas/oil in the tank mixed at 32:1. I'm also going to pull the fuel T off from my other sons odyssey and try it. If its still not right then I will pull the carbs and switch them and see what happens.

I was just surprised that it didn't rev up at all when I pulled the throttle. Not even a sputter or anything, it was like the throttle cable was disconnected... we will find out tomorrow.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Been thinking about this some more tonight.
It passes the pressure test so no air leaks. Exhaust not plugged.
This thing starts and idles. So all of the essentials are there.
It's not revin even though the slide goes up. So that says it's not pulling fuel. It has enough to idle so the idle circuit is clear but it won't rev so that means the main jet and needle are not letting fuel pass.
It's a carb issue to me right now.
Author:  obrut [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
Added fresh gas and oil mixed at 32:1 no change
Swapped on good fuel T no change
Swapped on good carb no change
Swapped on good CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) no change

Going to swap the coil next. It starts right up on one pull and idles no problem. When I pull the throttle nothing happens the revs might go up about 100rpm but that's it.

Can the sleeve be in backwards? Or can the timing be off somehow? Can the stator be installed wrong? Sure seems like an ignition issue because it certainly is getting fuel.
Author:  obrut [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
https://youtu.be/0FqUGoxLYC4

Video of it running
Author:  Garemie [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking at another fl250
That is very strange. Have you done a flow test on the fuel pump?
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