Ok I need some opinions or advice.
I bought some double lip seals from simplybearings in the U.K. and they are double lip DC style (two springs) and they are 11mm wide. I have an original (unopened package) Honda double lip seal and it is 8mm wide (package is open now LOL). See the photos attached. I installed the sleeve in each and took a picture. You will notice that the sleeve protrudes 3mm on the stock seal and is flush on the U.K seal. I feel that I must change this seal because the sleeve fits sloppy into the one in the Engine housing and fits real snug in all of the new seals. Also I had oil in my starter and stator area so I think I must have been getting some blow by. Since I am doing an Engine re&re and converting to a water cooled head and cylinder (home made) I will be changing all seals.
I tried to attach a seventh picture but site won't allow it but it just shows that I had the sleeve in the new seal and it was flush at both ends of the seal.
Thx in advance for any comments.

Click reply and try to attach that 7th pic your limited to 6 pictures per post

I bought a set of these UK-seller fork seals way back when (see the thread in Tech Stuff / Odyssey Parts), but never installed them. I always meant to try them out but never got to rebuilding any of my lower ends. They're still waiting for me.

Since then, oddATV1 on evilBay sourced some to OEM type/size and sell them for $23 shipped individually, or $37 + s/h for a 3-seal lower end set.

I could've gotten them for $6/each from a very major seal supplier with a min. buy of 100-qty, but it required a ~$1500 tooling charge to build the tool + a 12-16wk lead-time. My price would've had to be $21 ea + s/h simply to break even! So know its not exactly any easy feat to make these available. As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine with the oddATV1 price, and I know he didn't get as good of pricing from his source. ;) Be happy someone makes them!

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=9710

Knowing how an oil seal fits & sits on a seal groove...honestly...I don't think the +3mm seals will work. If you've changed one before, you know how they "pop" into place. They purposely resist insertion and require some persuasion. I've never tried to install one of the UK seals, but I'm doubtful. I bought a couple sets from oddATV1 to have on hand whenever it is I'll actually get to rebuilding a couple lower ends. Hoping this spring.

My concern would be how close to the edge of the sleeve where the lips with the spring on them were, look at the edge distance with the factory seal, you have the parts in your hand do you think it would be a problem?

I have purchased seals from Colonial Seal Co. Heres a link to their 45X62X8 seals. I believe they are dual lipped? http://www.colonialseal.com/search.php? ... rch&page=1

Here is the seventh picture.
You can see that the sleeve fits perfectly flush both sides and it looks like the lips are in good position.
Will try to measure up distances after I remove the old seal to see if the 3mm will be a problem.
My only concern is will the extra 3mm run into the bearing when I mount the seal flush on the case like the old one is right now? If it even LOOKS like it will work I will be the Guiney pig for this seal experiment.
I post more pictures later tonight. I do my work late at night cause I'm a night owl.

Ok I got curious, I couldn't help it. Went out to the shop and checked it out.
The sleeve fits exactly in the new seal. Flush on both sides. The lips with the springs are "just" inside from the edge. It's close but it looks like it will work. I would have to say that the lip with the spring is about half a mill from edge. These seals have another what looks like a dust lip on the edge next to the spring lip. This dust lip is flush with the end of sleeve on both sides.
Also I took a measurement of the original set up (pics below). You can see that from the housing surface to the top of the bearing race is almost 11mm. It's 10.70 approx. That tells me this 11mm seal should work in my opinion. So I will install this new seal and be a test bed for it. I have blown so many engines because of over heating that I am now getting real good a ripn em apart. It will be water cooled this time so heat wont be a problem anymore I hope. I like building engines even if they go poooffkaboomm. If my Engine is successful I will be doing the same to my brothers machine. Will keep you all updated if I am successful and will post on one of these threads.

Nice work!

If you're worried about overheating & poofkaboom'ing engines, a water cooled setup won't prevent that. By the time your water temp is noticeably hot, your top-end is probably already toast.

You need to spend more time jetting and should run an Exhaust Gas Temp (EGT) gauge, especially if you're riding a lot and riding hard and have burned more than a couple pistons.

I run one on my dash and I freakin' love it. Cost me around $110 (www.auberins.com). You can see how the EGT reacts to different points of the throttle curve and provide instantaneous feedback. Will help you hone in your jetting and will let you know when you're getting close to running "meltdown temps". Sustained temps above 1100F can melt your typical Wiseco forged aluminum piston, or even detonation can produce a small but focused heat blast hot enough to deform a piston. I believe most piston alloys have a melt temp in the ballpark of ~1200F. Exhaust gases are typically that hot, but as long as the fuel-mix and air are flowing, the parts are being cooled enough to compensate. Unless/until....you've got some kind of "catalyst" like detonation, air leak, oil-heat-soak, etc.

quote: if ur worried about a poof kaboom Engine, a water cooled set up won't prevent that.

Damn DMoneyAllstar that's not what I wanted to here. That's why I am doing all this.
We already run a EGT and my brother said it never went over 1100' when it went boom.
I had a thread going here about jetting and EGT and I was clued in real fast. You can't use the
EGT to set your initial jetting. Everyone said it was just used to just warn you things are getting
warm. Each Engine runs slightly different. Some at 1000' some at 950' etc. When it goes up it's a
warning. I didn't know that at the time.

Plug chop is the best physical check of jetting, really, and at idle, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Unless you have a dyno, egt, computer, etc...which isn't realistic. Engine must also be leak-free, have a good air filter, and you need to verify squish, compression, and fuel type (octane). Use good oil at 32:1. No gravity feed. Crank is verified true and has no bearing slop. Proper break in of new parts. Etc. The whole shabang. If you want to ride hard, you have to make sure your rig is tight. Get to know it...it's sounds, behavior, it's personality. Then you can notice things before they're catastrophic.

You have luck like mine. Have you decided to use it for sure or get you from oddatv?

Just an update on the new 11mm double lip seal.
I installed it just a few minutes ago and took some pics and measurements. Here they are.
Pic 1 shows the seal installed and it is approx. 1mm from hitting the bearing. All good so far.
Pic 2 shows the metal sleeve and it's .392 wide.
Pic 3 shows where the chamfer starts at .340 so it has a chamfer of .052
Pic 4 shows the measurement from top of one lip to the other, it is .260
Pic 5 shows seal with sleeve both installed. Sleeve is flush with first seal lip. It's close.
Pic 6 shows all the measurements.
The seal lip to lip is .260 and the sleeve sealing surface is .340 so it should be good.
In my opinion I think this bad boy is gona work but it's a close call.

So the 11mm UK fork seals fit? If so...AWESOME because I have (4) of them. I actually have a few of the oddATV1 ones, too. I prob have enough of that crank seal to rebuild all of my engines TWICE. lol

Ok, onto the next problem to solve!

I just want to update you all on this thread and the double lip seal from the UK.
Have had oddzilla #1 out for a few short rides and have had no issues with this seal.
Balancer oil level is holding and no excess pressure building up in the bellows.
Just thought you would all like to know because finding a double lip seal that works was
a real problem for a while.

Great man thanks for posting and keeping the forum parts list updated