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rlt
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 4
Does anyone know of a ball joint that can be used as a replacement on the front end of a fl350?

I have a bad upper left ball joint and after taking it apart I see the ball joint is welded into the arm, grinding off the weld and pressing the joint out isn't that big of a deal but I don't have any idea of what type of joint would be a stock type joint. If nobody has ever done it before I will just have to get measurements of the stock joint and see what I can cross reference for it. The only ball joint I had laying around my shop was for a geo metro and it looked like I could weld it on the arm without much trouble but there are no threads on it. It is a clamp on joint so it isn't much use on an odyssey.

Anyone have any ideas of where to look for a replacement ball joint?
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Nuke Em
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
Good topic, I also have several well worn ball joints but do not want to replace the entire arm just for the ball joint. I am not sure how well the cast arms will weld, but maybe well enough? :shock:

While we are on the subect, anyone ever find a cheaper arm bushings(where the arms meet the frame). Honda bushings(probably the smart way to do it) cost over $100 to do the front end. I am looking for brass bushings of the correct size. Any ideas?
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rlt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:29 pm 
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Posts: 4
I haven't taken the bushings out of the arms yet to see how thick they are but my only idea for that is to find a set of tapered wheel bearings that fit inside the arm and change the shaft to match the wheel bearing size. That way it would be very smooth and precise motion and adding grease every so often would make the joint last forever.

I will probably take the bushings out of mine this week sometime when I get time and see if I can figure anything out. The upper bushings on mine are worn a bit and it would be nice to be able to replace them with something a bit stronger.
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Nuke Em
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:33 pm 
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Another good idea if you can turn the shaft. Trouble is that they are welded to the frame and doing it by hand is probably not a very good idea. Take pictures of how you do it, if you go that route.
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King Kx
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
How about measuring the shaft and measuring the arm and making a bushing out of brass on a lathe? I'm sure a machine shop could spin them up cheap.
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rlt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 4
the shaft is 3/4 inch diameter so I have a set of trailer axle bearings that slide right over the shaft but it looks like the I.D. of the swingarm is 7/8 inch. and the bearing race has I think an inch OD so unless someone can come up with a really thin bearing something is going to have to be machined to fit.

the only other thing I can think of is to maybe make a whole new swing arm with the correct size id for standard bearings and a bolt in ball joint from a smaller car. I really don't feel like making new arms though, I would rather just get a front suspension and weld on from a sport quad and be done with it. I think on mine I will probably just make a shim out of sheet steel and tighten them up and call it good till I run across a whole new front suspension from a sport quad.
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rlt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:40 pm 
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well after messing around with the ball joint I figured the easiest way to get a little more life out of it is to just tighten the joint as much as possible. I took a ball peen hammer and bent the cap on the top of the joint down a bit to tighten it up and make it feel like a new joint. After I did that I welded a bead of metal across the top to make sure it doesn't bend back and get slack in it. It will make perfect sense when I get the pictures posted. I forgot and left the camera outside but I will get the pictures up here tomorrow of exactly what I am talking about but from what I can tell that cap is the main source of looseness so bending it down will fix the joint for several years I think. After tightening it just grease it up as good as you can and put the boot back on and it is ready to install.

as far as the swing arm bushing I still think I will just use thin sheet steel to shim them up as tight as I can and call it fixed. I still figure this will get me through a few years and give me time to find a cheap sport atv front end to fit onto the odyssey.
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cwwiedmaier
 Post subject: Hey Nuke Em
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:36 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Kansas
If you want I can help you with the upper bushing problem. I have been thinking about making them out of Durlin or Polyurathane with a hardness of 70 to 90 on the durometer. I want to make them longer than the original bushings so there is more wear surface. The stock bushings are only like .75" each side in a 4" boss. I think they should be like 1.5" each so it distributes the stress to more stem area. Also Polyurathane won't grind the crap out of the stems like the stock bushings do. Poly will probably last longer too. It's just a thought......
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wiggins
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Las Vegas
I was gonna ask about a Poly bushing set for the ody. I got the set for my Pilot and they work real well. I have found sets for my 85 ATC350X and my 86 ATC250R as well.

Anyone w/ the equipment and know how could do well and help a lot of folks out w/ Poly bushing to replace the expensive and sometime discontinued Honda bearings plus all the other makes out there.
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Nuke Em
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:29 am 
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Posts: 2243
Make em Curtis!!!!!! I will buy several sets and I bet Fed will also, not to mention most of the other 350 guys. If you need anything or funds to get started....let me know.

Gary
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hoser
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Anybody have the exact dimentions they need to be?
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Lee
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:04 am
Posts: 465
Location: Springfield Ohio
ID 27mm
OD 32 mm
There is a lip on one end, OD 40 X 6 thick
There is also a ridge on the lip (away from the out side end) OD 42 mm X 2.5 thick

The inside corners are 0.5 mm radius and the out side corners are chamfered 0.5 mm except for the inside corner by the lip. 2mm chamfer.

Before you go off and make some, make sure that the OEM parts is more trouble ($$$ or not available).
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hoser
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Thanks Lee what do you think about the other end where the ball joint is, is their a replacement out their one can use?
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Oldmanody
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:05 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Oklahoma
can someone post a pic of the bushing or maybe send me an old one -
i will ask my friend that has a machine shop and is making all the parts for Yoshi sandbuggies.

Curtis
OMO
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bugeye59
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3767
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Don't have a scanner, but hope these photos help. Baz
Ref No; 8. 51392-VMO-771 Bush,Arm Pivot.............8 of


Attachments:
SL550388.JPG
SL550388.JPG [ 187.13 KiB | Viewed 3595 times ]
SL550389.JPG
SL550389.JPG [ 204.26 KiB | Viewed 3595 times ]
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Oldmanody
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:05 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Oklahoma
i am sorry i am not a 350 guy i and not sure what part you are talking about. please circle or give me the number in the pic

Curtis
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bugeye59
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3767
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Number 8 I think is the bushing in question. 8 of.
Part No: 51392-VMO-771 Bush,Arm Pivot.......x8
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hoser
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Below is some additional info on the ball joints, its a reply from Lee in a email conversation we had about the 350 ball joints ( was picking his brain) maybe this will spark some more ideas or discussion.


Quote:

My basic opinion - find a sutible ball joint and weld on a holder for it. Not pretty but the arm was junk to start with. I will leave it up to you to load this on to the BB if you like (you can edit it and take credit if you like haha).


Hoser,

The FL 350 front ball joints are not replaceable (in the normal sense of the word replaceable). The outer housing of the ball joint is part of the arm forging and the guts of the ball joint are installed, then the arm is pressed in (riveted over) to hold it all together. If I say it is not replaceable some one on the web is bound to say you can do it. Good for them.

It may be possible to set up a jig to weld on a new end to the arm. You could cut off the old ball joint housing and machine up a ring to hold one of the new utility ATV ball joints. Drop everything in to a jig and weld it. Maybe add two gussets to increase the strength. I would test it to see if the weld is strong enough to bend the arm. I would not recommend this on a part with any 'life' left in it, just in case it's not one of my 'good' ideas. Of course once some one sets up to do this at a reasonable cost one of the scamsters will copy it and you will never recover your R&D cost.

Just FYI, If you wanted to try and rebuild the joint the ball joint stud is a 'SA0' part number (the center 3 digits in a Honda part number tell what vehicle the part was originally designed for). It took a little digging but that is a '80 to '83 civic part number. I do not recommend trying to do so thou. The metal housing is forged then riveted over. Trying to bend it back and re-rivet it seams like too much bending. If you try to weld the cap back in place it is likely the plastic insert will melt. Not good options either way.

Lee
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fastbanshee19
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:56 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Phoenix, AZ
hoser wrote:
Below is some additional info on the ball joints, its a reply from Lee in a email conversation we had about the 350 ball joints ( was picking his brain) maybe this will spark some more ideas or discussion.


Quote:

My basic opinion - find a sutible ball joint and weld on a holder for it. Not pretty but the arm was junk to start with. I will leave it up to you to load this on to the BB if you like (you can edit it and take credit if you like haha).


Hoser,

The FL 350 front ball joints are not replaceable (in the normal sense of the word replaceable). The outer housing of the ball joint is part of the arm forging and the guts of the ball joint are installed, then the arm is pressed in (riveted over) to hold it all together. If I say it is not replaceable some one on the web is bound to say you can do it. Good for them.

It may be possible to set up a jig to weld on a new end to the arm. You could cut off the old ball joint housing and machine up a ring to hold one of the new utility ATV ball joints. Drop everything in to a jig and weld it. Maybe add two gussets to increase the strength. I would test it to see if the weld is strong enough to bend the arm. I would not recommend this on a part with any 'life' left in it, just in case it's not one of my 'good' ideas. Of course once some one sets up to do this at a reasonable cost one of the scamsters will copy it and you will never recover your R&D cost.

Just FYI, If you wanted to try and rebuild the joint the ball joint stud is a 'SA0' part number (the center 3 digits in a Honda part number tell what vehicle the part was originally designed for). It took a little digging but that is a '80 to '83 civic part number. I do not recommend trying to do so thou. The metal housing is forged then riveted over. Trying to bend it back and re-rivet it seams like too much bending. If you try to weld the cap back in place it is likely the plastic insert will melt. Not good options either way.

Lee



I called atv racing and spoke with a person named Art ( i think that was his name) they actually will and can replace them. What he does is cut them out and cnc machines new ones that fit and presses them in. I don't remember what price he gave me but yeah. here in phoenix he says he's has done alot of them before and works extremely well ( this shop used to modify ody's and pilots all day)
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Turbotexas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I have seen these, and should have taken a picture but I forgot... You talked to Arlan and I am sure he told me $125.00 But this was more than 6 mos. ago...
they looked good as new!!!
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hoser
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
Lee wrote:
ID 27mm
OD 32 mm
There is a lip on one end, OD 40 X 6 thick
There is also a ridge on the lip (away from the out side end) OD 42 mm X 2.5 thick

The inside corners are 0.5 mm radius and the out side corners are chamfered 0.5 mm except for the inside corner by the lip. 2mm chamfer.

Before you go off and make some, make sure that the OEM parts is more trouble ($$$ or not available).


Can you draw this up I cant picture it in my pea brain. :shock:
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