AkPilot sent me a bunch of pics of his latest project, I will let him fill in the details.

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Hoser has set this tread up to document my new project. The more I tear this Pilot down the more I think better condition pilots have been parted out.

Ten days ago I found an ad in Craiglist for a Pilot $800.00. It was 10 PM and I was not sure I should call that late but I could see it was posted at 4:30 earlier that night. I called, it was supposed to have been sold the seller told me and the transaction was to take place the next day. I asked if the he had met with the seller, he stated no, so I told him I was comming now. After meeting with him I offered 1000.00 and showed him video's of my current Pilot and that did it, it was mine. At that time I did not know how bad it really was.

It came from Kodiak Island Alaska, world renowned for the Kodiak Brown Bear, largest in the world. It rains there all the time, no wonder it is rusty. It appears the pilot lost a piston ring, as I can see marks in the combustion chamber. I have no way of telling what made the marks as the piston and wrist pin and bearing cage are gone. I think the previous owner tore down the Engine and left it like in the picture, plastic over the lower case with the head sitting on top. All the take-off parts were left on a tub that you guessed it filled up with water. Unbeliveably the needed new parts were in this tub also, new piston, rings, wrist pin, extra bearings ect. all were ruined. The owner did fill up the lower case with oil, as you can see in the pictures. It might have saved the lower end, not sure. The rust on the crank seem to be surface rust. Just a good cleaning might be all it needs.

Right now I'm trying to take out the stubborn inner CV's. At first I thought it would be easy, last night I thought I was getting some movement. I thought it was moving untill it hit the inner snapring, but no the movement is in the carrier bearings both CV are moving together. Not sure if this means the trans bearings are shot or not. I would not think so as this seems this is a low hour machine just neglected.

As to what I will do with this Pilot, not sure. I need to find out how bad the frame is, and whats the best way of stopping the rust. The outer will be bead blasted but the inner? I think drilling holes and looking in with a scope is in order. Maybe I talk to a rust proofer, they have a non-hardening paint they spray in door panels, maybe shoot this in the bolt bungs throughout the frame.

Hoser posted a picture of my first passion, snowmobiling. I guess I take Alaska's sceanery for granted as usually I don't take pictures much. This one is from the top of a mountain above Whittier Alaska, about 45 miles from Anchorage. It's call Black Stone Bay, and it leads the the Prince William sound - the same one Exxon Valdex ran aground in '89.

Wayne

Give this a read on the axles
http://pilotodyssey.com/800reasons.htm

http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.ph ... ght=puller

Once the trans is out I would split it and inspect its real easy their is nothing to it.


Looking forward to seeing this Pilot revived!

Let us know what you end up doing with the frame. I have have a stripped down frame with some rust issues also.

More pics, tug of war with the CV's

These CV's are proving to be really stubborn. I tries pulling them with cable jacks and using a air hammer in unison but vibration only started braking the chain. They want to play hardball. For now I will just keep soaking them in WD40 for the time being, I'll weld on heavier chain and try again in a month or so. I'm hoping with the looks of the frame the CV's are not perminantly in there.

Wayne

WD 40 is a waste of time, PB Blaster works 1000 times better faster its a catalyst. http://www.pbblaster.com
http://www.pbblaster.com/store/moreinfo ... oduct_ID=1

On a molecular level PB blaster is about 1/2 the size of WD 40 so it soaks in and has a better capillary action.


Also see http://pilotodyssey.com/Pilot_axle_removal.htm

Hoser is right, PB blaster seemed to work the best for me.....however, when I was buying a can of the PB blaster at the autoparts store, one of the clerks said he swore by PB, but then he tried the Seafoam and thinks that works even better.......just mho........

I never tried the seafoam yet I will have to give it a try, plenty of rusted stuff to try it on around here

AKPilot are you around the welding industry where they test welds? The penetrant they apply to welds to soak in before applying the dye powder is suppose to be better at penetrating than the Kroil or PB Blaster, not sure if it does anything to loosen remove or treat rust but if you cant get the PB blaster to all the splines this might help? My theory being that if you have a layer of rust between two solid metals and you can introduce a liquid between the two metals (saturate the rust) then it will break the tension.

http://www.weldingmag.com/323/Issue/Art ... 0953/Issue

AK - PB is what worked for me.....no lie....I soaked it day and night application for 18 days until I got some movement. I rented an axle puller and fabricated a bracket. Once one came out...the other was right behind it.

Kroil works well for we, I can't believe with 2 cum-alongs those will not release!!the chain was spreading from the pressure huh?I would check the cases as well when pulling that's alot of pressure on them for sure.I send my frames out for mediablasting, it will get that metal to brand new and it is much better IMO than regular old sandblasting, the metal is cleaned better than old fashioned lets say "black beauty" and the primer adheres to it better my powdercoater has told me.

Mudbogger,

When I was pulling, it was on both C.V.'s so the pressure was transfered from one C.V. directly to another, therefore I doubt that the case was hurt. At first I started pulling on one and realized it would not be good. I like the slide hammer idea but that too transfers the blows to the case and bearings. It was not hard to build the clamps, I got lots of pipe here at the Gate shop.

When you blasted your frame what media did they use? Glass, Aluminium Oxide, Walnut Shells? I purchased a small cabnet from Granger and was wondering what is best. I'm leaning towards Glass.

Your frame looks fantastic! I'm afraid mine will have rust craters all over it after blasting it. The front has lots of gussets, I'm thinking I'm going to cut slots in them so I can blast inside, then weld them up. It's the only way I can see to stop the rust. Also in the rear, the previous owner hit something hard where the skid plate attaches, I'll have to cut out the pipe and weld in new, this will give me a peek as to what the inside pipe looks like.

Hoser,
I think you stated that the frame holds water in the front end and that is a potential rust/weak point. I can see where cage down tubes connect in the front, water can enter there and run down the tube and collect by the front cross tube. I wonder why Honda did not drill weep holes at the base of the pipe like they did on all the other cage connection point.?

Still soaking the C.V.'s, I'm in no hurry.

Wayne

Hi Wayne, yes it was glass indeed-it does a great job and I recommend it(although I did not do it myslef, I paid to have the process done to my frame)

It's been awhile since I last posted, Hard to find time working on the project when it's riding season up here, been working on sleds.

I decited to wire bursh the frame to get a feel for the shape the frame was really in. Most of the frame is solid, I arrived at this conclusion by my highly calabrated hammer ping test. There is some areas I'll need to replace but all in all I think the frame is good. I'll have the frame media blasted and powder coated once I'm done with any frame modifications.

Wayne

I had to cut away part of the frame under the Engine mounting where the skid frame bolt to. There is a lot of surface rust and it left pits in the metal. Not sure how the powder coating will turn out with some of the ruff spots.

Wayne

I have decited on stretching the frame, I'll cut it where I did my FL800 but will stretch it 5 to 6 inches instead of 4.5". I'll move the plastic sides back with the Engine part and untuck the sides from the front fenders.

Wayne

Here is the Question:

I have no problem extending the frame as I have done it before. But now I want to widen the frame, uncharted waters for me. Ultimately I would like to go 4" in the rear (two on each side). The front will be unaffected by the widening the rear is another story. The only suspension mounting point that will be affected is the upper front A-arm of the rear. The two A-arm mounting points are inline with one another, thus moving out the front one will require using a heim joint instead of a bushing like the original.
The roll cage will also be widened the same amount as the frame. The widening from the front to the rear will not be the same, as you aproach the rear it will become wider, same with the roll cage. The 4 inches might be too much but once it's cut apart I'll place plastic and roll cage to see what can be done.

I guess I'm pretty set on widening the frame at this point, just wondering if I have all my bases covered? I want additional room for the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and myself. The track distance will be the same as any LT Pilot.

Wayne

This is all very interesting...

Track will be the same as any LT Pilot.
But this is a not a long travel pilot correct ?

So are you switching to LT axles ?
By my calculations that will gain you 2.5" on each side

I'm actually looking at only widening the other end to make room for a two seater pilot...
My plans are to leave the rear alone and bring the front to rear width sticking with the stock suspension.

Keep us posted on your progress...

FL670- Track will be the same as any LT Pilot. But this is a not a long travel pilot correct ?
FL670- So are you switching to LT axles ? By my calculations that will gain you 2.5" on each side

The track will not change only the rear plastic fenders will cover more tire than on a regular LT Pilot. The only thing that will be diferent from a normal LT Pilot is the front upper A-arm attachment point will be shorter than a LP A-arm and it will also will be a heim joint instead of a bushing. True the bottom frame rail and the top 1.5" frame rail will be fruther out but two lower attachment points (Engine/trans cradle) will be the same.

Also the trailing arm mounting point will move out but should not have any effect? It will be not as much of an angle out to the wheel carrier, less angle like a stock pilot.

I'm not sure what the shorter A-arm will do to the suspension cycle, I've been told the Pilot geometery allows the rear wheels to toe out to some degree at full bump and extension. This is caused by the A-arm I assume? On a stock or LT Pilots the front attachment is much shorter than the rear attachment point. On my LT A-arm both attachment points move out the same amount leaving the same geometery as a stock, I'm proposing what will happen if the front is 1-2 inches shorter because the attachemt point on the frame is further out?

I'm thinking of making a mock-up A-arm (using a stock arm I have), moving out the forward attachment point out on my FL800 LT Pilot frame and see what happens when I cycle the suspension. I would guess the toe out at both droop and compression will be greater. If it returns at ride height I should be OK.

Thoughts - other than I'm crazy

Wayne

Today is Ginsu day!

Wayne

More Ginsu Pictures

I decited to leave the front A-arm mounts in the same position. By making a frame that bolts onto the Engine mounting points and back A-arm I can reproduce where they should be once their cut free.

Wayne

You say make extra room for Engine! What are you putting in this one, Or are you going to try to get 2 engines in there One for each rear wheel would be good.
I hope you know where all those frame bits go, You lost me a while back

I am pretty sure they coat the inside of the tubing with something at the factory, I assume when they dip the frames, looks like the inside of a few quad and 3 wheeler frames I have seem, have have a frame powder coated then in a few years cut it apart, rust city, the heat from the paint curing kills the coating inside then moisture takes over...

Is it like a gray to white coating?