I only have a few pics but i thought i would start a thread on the rest of the pilot.. here are some from when we got it.

back from the powder coaters.

Sexy frame, Are you going to keep the plastics red?

Also, it may just be the pics, but is the back of the frame tweaked? Maybe its just not level on the platform, but it looks a little off.

Do you know what tires those are?

here are some pics with the suspension bolted up.

a few more.

we used toe plates for go carts and just drilled the front bolt pattern from the Pilot into them, and used a stock car camber and caster gauge with a magnetic adapter to set the caster and camber.

Thanks for posting up those pics AFC.
I am very interested in your wheel alignment'it is the stage that I am at now.
I have big understeer and is Moocho annoying at the races.
I have Neil's ex LT500 Stadium Pilot.Could you post up a how to,with specs etc for a dummy level like me?
I can't wait to get the steering sorted out so that I don't lose those few seconds & posi's/lap!
Would be much appreciated.
Cheers Baz.

we had to get axles shafts from ATVR Marve from Tuff never got back to us, when we got the Pilot it only had one axle so we found a used stock one on ebay, and since ATVR only sells the shafts in sets and this is a first gen long travel from 92 or 93 we decided to use both new axles shafts and leave the old one for a spare, now to get the outboard CV off the axles, we made a tool, we used two people to do it, one to hold the CV and axle applying constant pressure trying to pull them apart and the other to swing the hammer (make sure you trust the person with the hammer) the tool worked great it only took a couple whacks.

ok now the boot issue the outer boot from Honda is discontinued, and the Napa boot #2477 is also discontinued, but the Advance auto Boot #6-1052 is still available we have used this boot for inner and outer before it works great minus the factory clamps wont work, and the ones that come with the kit wont work either, so we found clamps and a tool on ebay that worked great the tool was easy and came with directions, although we haven't ran them yet i don't feel we will have a issue.

Baz there are 10,000 ways to skin a cat, the best i can do is let you know the way im doing it, but for sure there will be people that disagree.

by understeer do you mean when you go into the corner the front end pushes to the out side of the corner?


im only asking this because i know it by pushing or loose, pushing is when the front end pushes towards the outside of the corner and loose is when the back end comes around and the car wants to spin out, in my opinion the Pilot has a ton of rear percentage the Engine, trans, fuel, and radiator, are in the rear heck the driver sits more towards the rear, i have never had one on scales but i bet its close to 30% front and 70% rear, with that much rear % its always going to want to push no matter what, the three ways i would get it to turn are, horse power break the rear wheels loose and feather the throttle, or diamond the track enter the corner wide and dive down towards the apex, or run in low and grab the rear break to slide the back end, i just don't think you can ever get the Pilot to just roll smooth through the corners. just my 2 cents and im no expert by far or don't claim to be............

I will show how I set up the front end and rear end when we finish it up, in the earlier pics we where just getting it in the ballpark.

Yes,that's exactly what I mean.When I turn left,it just pushes forward,and even more so when it's in muddy conditions.
I have tried various diff dive and turn techniques.When it's dry conditions it's less of a prob,but when it's wet n muddy greasy,it's near on impossible to turn.
I agree with weight distribution,it's all at the back,needs to be more at the front to give it some bite.
I found that changing the front tyres to a diff more side aggressive tread helped,but that's not the whole answer.
If you watch my last race vids,you'll see that I get to the first turn first,but then lose that posi to 2-3 buggies.I was just drifting to the outside.
I look forward to your teachings then!

how rough is the track you race on? are you using all of your front shock travel? i mean do you get big air.

and yes wet, muddy, sticky, tracks are horse power tracks, dry slick tracks are finesse,

Track is not rough,it's graded now and then,as it doubles as a tin top track as well.
There's no big air.I know what your alluding to,lowering the front? I tried this with some raised top shock mounts that I made, bolted onto the existing mount,thus lowering the front end.But without proper alignment,it was in some ways worse.It's funny,cause if you look at Yoda's shock bracket option,it looks the same. But I built mine before he posted his pics Great minds!

Baz, have you tried tightening the pre-load on the springs? I have a place near home that is nearly like riding on concrete that I tighten the pre-load on and it gives me less roll or sway, and feels bettter... I stay away from mud if I can!!!

Yes I did Davo,but not much better,it's the actual alignment geometry I need to sort out.

I was asking about the track because its a pick your poison type of thing, if you have big jumps and whoops you'll be better off setting up for those and struggling in the corners, look at Micky Thompson type trucks they suck in the corners but eatup whoops and jumps, since your running a flat style track the corners are your poison and getting off the exit of the corner is where you'll make up your ground i would setup for that, any car can be driven in deep to the apex, it's the one that can turn and come off the corner with the most forward bite that will win.

a car will push when you overload the contact patch of the tire, there is only about 2"/width of the tire touching the ground at any given time if you over load that patch it will loose grip (traction) and push, there is not one easy fix but by playing with a combination of things you can definitely make it better or worse, it's a trial by error thing, and driving style makes a difference what works for one guy might not work for another, here are a few things i would try easiest being playing with the tires.

for a wet track and dry track in the front, run a taller tire with the softest sidewall you can find, with a square profile not bubbled (meaning the center of the tire is taller than the inside and out side of the tire), you want it to be flat the same all the way across, with the lowest pressure you can run and still keep the tire on the bead.

1-Taller tire = taller sidewall lets the tire rollover without loosing contact.
2-softer sidewall = same thing as above, stiffness is your enemy you want everything soft so it can soak up the imperfections in the track.
3-flatter tread = more contact patch better grip.
4-lower pressure = more contact patch better grip.

think of the tire as a soft rubber ball if you where on your hands and knees trying to slide it across the ground (slide not roll) it gives and bends and grabs until you add enough force to make it loose contact with the ground and slide, now take a bowling ball and do the same thing it doesn't take much force at all to slide it, because it doesn't give..

now for the rear on a wet track meaning tacky not a sloppy mess, (and this is just for you and your situation)
i would do the opposite as the front to help the back end break loose,

1-shorter tire = less give, stiffer + more RPM's.
2-stiffer sidewall = less flex, give slide easier.
3-i would still run a flat profile but harder compound and less knobbies = less traction more slide.
4-more pressure = less traction more slide.

just a few things to think about.

Now shocks a springs, the most important part of suspension (also most expensive) you did the right thing by lowering the front but i would venture to guess your suspension is way to stiff, its setup for stadium tracks and dunning, i would guess if you put a plastic tie wrap around the shock shaft and pushed it up to the shock body to monitor the travel you are only using 1/3 of the possible travel, you want the softest spring possible with out two things happening, one the shock bottoming out, two the frame bottoming out, you want the the suspension to do all the work then the tire, if you have 12" of possible travel and are only using 4" its over loading the contact patch at 4", so if you could cycle that extra 8" it would give the car that much more time to turn without pushing. softer is always better the softest possible.........


shocks, with shocks nowadays you can trick the car by changing compression and rebounding, you can hold the front end down longer in the corner, if you want to help your car turn, on the the front shocks lighten up the compression so the front will dive in the corner transferring weight to the front helping it pivot, and stiffen the rebound so it holds the front down longer when you get back on the throttle helping it turn.

on the rear do the opposite, to help the car turn, lighten up the rebound so when you go in the corner and get off the throttle and get on the brakes it lets the rear jump up and transfer weight to the front helping the car pivot, and stiffen the compression so when you get back on the throttle it holds the front end down longer helping the car turn.

there is no exact science you just need a base and then work from there to see what works best for you.

that's where the FOX AIR SHOX are nice you can raise and lower the ride height by adjusting the oil level, you can change your spring rate by raising and lowering your nitrogen pressure, you can setup your car for each track without changing springs and making brackets.

I keep my front shocks soft, when you turn the front leans a little into the turn, the weight shift sticks the front tire and the Pilot turns, if you have your front shocks too stiff the Pilot will push and plow, cool thing about the FOX AIR is you can tune the compression ratio so the spring rate has a steep or shallow curve, mine is super soft to absorb some ruts in the sand made on a busy dune day, when I follow a ATVR LT Pilot the Pilot shutters over these bumps, my compression ratio allows me to make big jumps and not bottom because they progressively get stiffer as the shock nears the end of its stroke.

I agree unless you have a bunch of money like race teams the Fox air 2.0 shocks are your best bet, you could fine tune them yourself with oil, nitrogen, and valving..........

Just remember if you want to make a million dollars racing all you have to do is spend two million..............

All the top stadium lite cars used the FOX AIR

Thanks for all that,much appreciated.That would have taken me half a day to type out!
I was thinking just those same things to promote a larger contact patch.The same applies in the 4 wheel driving I do.It increases the foot print.
I also want to look for a tyre,who's tread pattern would be at it's max lateral resistance into the turns.
I will also look at decreasing my rear track width to combat the no-differential rear end.The rear end is just FAR to dominant and overpowers the lesser front steering forces.Balance.

Bugeye59, Fit a diff and fiddle brakes or cutter brakes as they call them in the usa, I have that set up on my pilot and it will turn on a dime. Not a 2 minute job though.
Try this, get a washer bottle (wash wipers off a car) with pump and set up the pipe with a spray jet on the end so that it sprays water across the rear tyre (you will need 2 one on each side) as you come towards a corner give the INSIDE rear tyre a spray with water, that will let the inside rear tyre break traction and will make your pilot turn better. This will need a bit of practice as to when to spray and how long, do not put your outside wheels on the same line as your inside wheels were on the lap before or you might well spin off Not sure if this is legal so hide the tanks under your hood and run the pipes through the frame.
I can just see the track officals standing scratching there heads wondering why its getting muddy on the inside if every corner and the front end of your pilot getting higher as the race goes on

G'Day Lee,You have watched many a James Bond movie no doubt!
Yes I'm familiar with your setup,and build,it's great!
Ive watched your vids.....very jealous!
Come Downunder and race with me at Northam.
We must convert the non-believers.
The track local dirt that we race on(Clay) turns into a greasy mess when watered.
Imagine Dog Bog mixed with bearing grease....that's what it's like.
It even sticks in blobs inside the beadlocks and totally throws out the wheel balance,as if the thing's gonna fly off!
It sticks to everything...2hrs to hose n clean up the Pilot post race.
Here's a pic of my 1st Stock 89 Pilot.

Yes more mud is the last thing you want, we get plenty of that here in the UK.

here are a few pics of the progress, we just stuck the shocks and wheels on today to see what it looks like, the suspension is not set yet so please don't tell me its not straight its not done yet.