Ok I love our Country and I feel for all of our troops Im just asking a question here.

I love racing (all types) but can someone please tell me how our government can justify spending tax dollars to sponsor multiple top racing series drivers? what benefits do we the people gain from it?

Thanks for any help to enlighten me.


http://www.nationalguard.com/events/guard-racing

http://www.goarmy.com/racing/

What did this cost us?

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/uspslance.htm

It's a recruiting expence??? ADVERTISEMENT!!! lol I know the Army has been "sponsoring" the PBR Bull riding for years....
I don't want the recruiters coming into my Local High Schools, so maybe getting lost in the advertising war is a trade off???

Wasn't there a UTV race team at the GNCC events last year that was sponsored by the National Guard?

I agree it's just a recruiting/advertising tool to make them look cool to easily influenced young people. Not that there is anything wrong with joining the service, but it does seem to be a waste of tax money if the sponsored teams are actually getting benefits from the deal and not just putting a sticker on their vehicle.

USPS is an independent government agency and is not funded directly by tax dollars, so tax dollars do not go to race teams. Although since the USPS is currently in debt and borrowing from the government, possibly because of things like their sponsorship of cycling, I suppose indirectly tax dollars do go to race teams. But not directly like the National Guard or Army sponsored teams.

I have been searching for money spent but cant find anything but this question came up also.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 054AAb2cus

Recruiting and retention programs in the military are almost $8 Billion a year. The President recently cut the budget because in today's economy more people are staying in and wanting to join. I don't recall the breakdown by service and how much is recruiting vs. retention but these funds cover everything from re-enlistment bonuses, college scholarships, paying for the staffs that run these programs to national advertising campaigns.

Every US male who turns 18 is still required to sign up for selective service. However, less than half are actually eligible to serve and fewer willing. Add in life choices (e.g. drug use) and fewer yet are eligible. Given the multitude of entry requirements I've heard that anywhere from 5-20% of the young men and women are even qualified to join depending on which service they desire to join. Each service has different requirements. The emerging disqualifier now is being grossly out of shape, overweight and unable to pass simple fitness requirements.

And that is a very sad thing!!!

Our military is a business with a unlimited budget they piss away billions each year running out of money is only a temporary thing they send out team doom and gloom in the right wing media to scare the public into giving them more funds then its business as usual nobody is ever held accountable for missing or squander money, remember the 83 billion they sent to IRAQ that turned up missing? google missing money in iraq and start reading.

Remember this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU
nobody does the next day was 9/11 and that 2.3 trillion missing was all forgot about. http://solari.com/archive/missing_money/

Then you have people bitching about some slug taking advantage the welfare system haha

The right wing bible beaters, kill them in the name of GOD, does a good job of brain washing the general public we need to spend trillions protecting ourselves against the bad guys lmao

So whats the problem?

don't discriminate take their fat ass let them spend the first 6 months or what ever it takes to get them back into shape, send them to FAT camp teach them proper eating habits and fitness once in shape enough to pass the fitness test they start boot camp, the military training is all about making people better so shut up and make them better, add the time they spent getting fit on the back end of their hitch, some of the time spent in fat camp can be class time training they probably need anyways, win win for everybody, you start a whole new industry inside the USA, more jobs, the end result is better Americans.

Well Hoser, not sure what to say. You just said the military was a business pissing away billions and I'm sorry you feel that way. Your personal freedom doesn't come cheap my friend and it's more than just money.

Back to the business/health side of things. Why would the military take on known health issues, expend extra time and money on people who are predisposed to lifestyle that is unhealthy only to later suck up expenses in the health system? That is expensive, people cost more than anything else in the military...salary, healthcare, training, equipping, etc...

A corollary argument would be why doesn't the military take on drug addicts, rehabilitate them and then enter them into service? Same set of issues...except the social element of drug use is not conducive to service.

So much for "adapt and over come" I cant understand why you would bring up drug addicts and not include illegal aliens and cancer patients and those living in mental institutions you might as well throw them into your argument.

Over weight and out of shape is a state of mind something that the millitary is good and massaging and manipulating its a easy fix I have seen it done many times, but your right you just keep taking the cream of the crop and keep pumping them full of incentives (Billions of dollars) to sign up or resign you might consider my suggestions when your having problems finding fresh meat, their is a ton of talented people out their that is just slightly over weight.

I like how you gloss over the known trillions the military can not account for, I am sure you never see the money our military pisses away I have 40 years of friends and family who are not scared to tell the stories of the hands on money they pissed away and seen blown, wasted whilst they were serving our country.

I think your the first military type that I have ever met that didnt agree the military pisses away MILLIONS daily, your jedi mind tricks "Your personal freedom doesn't come cheap my friend" don't work on me, that GOD and country crapola lost its pizazz many years ago lmao

If you know where them missing trillions of US tax dollars went you might pass that info along to the pentagon not that they are still looking for it or anything, I wish you could have seen the special they had on TV the other night where contractors were ripping off the military, selling them a hand full of nuts or bolts for $5.00 then charging them 1.2 million for shipping, they never question shipping they just send the check, insiders say that crapola is still happening TODAY.

Hoser -

I'd like to banter w/ you for days but I won't give you the satisfaction of a soapbox opportunity at my or any other Servicemember's cost.

What a elegant way to say you have no clue where them trillions of tax payers dollars went, I wonder if dumbsfeld will talk about it in is book?

FYI its not banter just hard facts that the media (pick your source not mine) wont ignore.

In the future don't ever imply I am disrespecting any service member or try to play the "good people that served our country" card that shit wont fly it don't have the wing span any more.

Oh Hoser...what to say? I'll PM you my office phone number and email address. Feel free to call and we can debate all you like, not worth it on here. I type slow...

Cheers,
TW

I think ALL Gov't spending is out of control! But The service members salaries aren't what a private contractors salary is, or no where close to it! I think this might be where Hoser is coming from...
I don't think us running a Fat Farm is a good idea... BUT I see a contractor chargeing Uncle sam thousands of dollars an individual to pre-fit him to active duty physical conditioning... IE America's Biggest Loser's

It's sad a show like that is so well recieved???

See that's just it you want to "banter" and "debate" (your words) their is nothing to debate I put the facts on the table, you how ever want to spin things, avoid the facts, try to imply I am against the military or troops, I seen this act played before many times and wont stand for it.

If you like I will give you my phone number you can call me when you find them missing trillions of dollars dumsfeld was looking for or those billions Bush lost in IRAQ. Their is no need to explain the millions they spend on sponsorships or advertising I fully understand that they are advertising their business.

My comments has nothing to do with service members pay or benefits its sad to see you fell for his spin attempt he cant help it its part of his conditioning he has received in his training, its like the first rule of defending the military any time someone says anything slightly negative about the military in reply you accuse them of not supporting the troops.

My comments are about the pissing away of our tax dollars, the missing money, the corruption in the system the good ole boy network that's been around since the first day they collected tax dollars and started spending that money on our country's defense. Like Geln Beck said today Ben Franklin wanted nothing to do with politics he only got into them so he could get the printing contracts, and he did, he wanted a chunk of that tax payer dollar and he got it !

Well Ted, it seems I didn't teach you not to debate with unarmed or poorly armed people.

When their weak arguments fail, they will just change the subject and start throwing rocks. The absolutely amazing thing is that they are so accustomed to doing just that, that they don't even realize what they are doing or how silly it looks.

In the past, I have been guilty of standing aside as I watched Hoser and others go on endlessly trying to make someone else look bad. I won't do it anymore, this is where I draw my line.

I find it comical that anyone would make something of a purely partisan political statement that the Secretary of Defense made 9 years ago for the sole purpose of making the prior administration look bad. If there had ever been anything to the allegations, does anyone think that the Republicans wouldn't have taken the opportunity to drag the Democrats thru the dirt? Or, if there were anything the Democrats could pin on the Republicans, does anyone not believe they wouldn't do the same. They have both been doing it since day one, and will continue until hell freezes over.

Yes you should have taught him not to make statements like
"Your personal freedom doesn't come cheap my friend and it's more than just money. "

That is right wing fear mongering 101 their is no place for that in this conversation, totally uncalled for has nothing to do with the MISSION TRILLIONS OF TAX PAYERS MONEY.

And this " I won't give you the satisfaction of a soapbox opportunity at my or any other Servicemember's cost."
Trying to imply I am against service men what a crock of shit, what kind of low blow is that, why are you trying to plants seeds in peoples minds like that is your position so weak you have to resort to this?

I was 100% accurate with my missing trillions comments, its pure fact the military has been pissing away billions for YEARS.

Since Ted is not smart enough to figure it out.... this problem is at the top it has nothing to do with the little guy its the guy spending the money.

Sorry you don't like my opinion on allowing people that are over weight into your little club but if you don't want them that gives you no right to talk down to them as you have.

don't like this post quit reading it in case you don't know it the vast majority of Americans are tired of the military pissing away billions of dollars, if you don't like that then fix the problem.

"I didn't teach you not to debate with unarmed or poorly armed people. "

Thanks, I see it runs in the family, not sure what this has to do with the mission trillions of tax payers dollars, sad you have no concern for the missing money !

Push your heads deeper in the sand ignore the facts all you want, attacking me wont change the facts, attacking me attracts more attention to the problem and drives up page views

Let me rephrase: You bet your damn ass that your personal freedom doesn't come cheap and it's more than just money. If you don't like the cost of your freedom then do something about it. This is not fear mongering, it's the truth. Explain to me that it is not, that your freedom comes cheap.

The Planning, Programming and Budgeting System of the military is run by the former Illinois Senator from Chicago (your home town right?) and Congress. It's a four year cycle encapsulated and driven by the President's strategic plan and guidance documents to flow to meet those requirements. They determine down to the penny how much each service spends, where it is spent and when it is spent. People you elected determine all of this and they account for it and then the Budgeting Office (civilian officials) pushes the funds, accounts for them and then reconciles the books.

If you were 100% accurate w/ the "missing trillions" I'd like to see the certified spending documents that shows the funds are missing. Not hearsay, the accounting documents...produce them to validate your statement. The Freedom of Information Act enables you to get them so when you finish reviewing them and show me where the money was "missing" then you can stand on your statements proudly and truthfully.

Relying on over-synthesized media as the backbone of an argument or "it is fact" is dubiously a red herring argument. As a relative basis the media pushes what snip its it wants you to hear sandwiched between sound bites of commentators. It's not fact, it is opinion.

Do you support the troops? If so, how? Do anything special over Memorial Day in remembrance?

The military is not on an unlimited budget which you stated as fact. Show us that documentation too.

Show us the documentation on the lost trillions Hoser...it's that simple. Put your money where your mouth is and show us the documents!!

After you took a wicked turn into unsubstantiated land I rec'd numerous emails from guys who visit this board. A summation of what they said: He's an Axxxxxx, not worth the time, Fxxx Hoser, he's a prick and ungrateful for his military, sad to see him nip at you for no reason. Further... Don't engage with him, he'll just edit your posts, block your IP address and do anything at any cost to make you look like a fool so he won't look bad. There's more... If they said what's true this post will never make it to the board and/or you'll edit it because you would be floored by who wrote them.

I showed your post to some of the guys who I work with. The reactions were surprising. One guy wanted to know if you were a CPA, one laughed on and on saying "You shouldn't debate or argue with an idiot, they don't understand".

It runs in the family? How many children have you passed your keen insight, technical savvy and ability to decipher thousands of pages of budgets to?

Lastly, the military is not a "little club". I don't recall or see where I was talking down to them? Where is that, really?

For sake of keeping this on track... Again, where are the documents, budgets, accounts and so on that show the military lost billions or trillions and are on an unlimited budget? You obviously know of this so show all of us the facts. Any time you're ready, lay them out.... Here's the link to the Government accounting Office: http://www.gao.gov/ They should have every document you are needing to prove your point.

this is all comes down to self determination and self responsibility something lacking in the world today, and from where I sit its a result of liberial and democratic policies that the politicians in big citys constantly push for to win votes from the worthless masses

Right Wing 101 is taught next door to Union Liberial Mentality 102, with Paying for Eco-Lesbian Brainwashing through Higher Education with your Tax Money 103, never is any one side correct, but there are plenty of wrongs. The only thing really wrong would be to NOT to have differing opinion, NOT be able to discuss whatever topic and or to NOT have a place work to an understanding or to agree to disagree.

Hoser will not edit your posts except if your trying to sell or scam.

Does the military waste a lot of money YES. Is it, for the most part, a well intended, honestly run operation? Yes Does that make it OK in my book? yes sir Does Hoser know what the military spends, where and why, No, of course not. Does hoser believe he knows? i doubt it. Does the military know what they spend ? I doubt that too and that's a good thing, and if they do know they shouldn't be telling too many peeps, that's our nations security.

Lutrez & Hare - Nicely stated.

Before I go any further I want to make it clear I have always 100% supported the troops no where here or any place else have I EVER shown I don't support the troops, the only indication I do not support troops comes from YOUR implications.

What I cant understand is why EVERY TIME anybody questions the military about anything and I mean literally anything you military types start questioning their patriotism, EVERY TIME no doubt this is part of your training because your track record is 100%, it never fails when you cant answer the question then attack their patriotism and imply they don't support the troops.

This thread has nothing to do with ME I know you want this all to be about hoser you and your dad both are working HARD to make this about hoser, nice try on the spin job.

This thread and my comments are about the missing money AND the money that's been pissed away, how about them billions in no bid contracts given to cheanys company halliburton that was all just a coincidence, no doubt that's what you were taught.

Your wanting reports is a joke that is why dumbsfield was on the news making his speech, if you think it was as easy as going to the http://www.gao.gov/ don't you think he would have had one of his secretarys do that, are you really this dumb or is this more of your diversionary tactics, you think the general public is that dumb and is buying your point of view.

Your pretty sly asking me to do something you know I don't have the man power or money to do that's impressive position to take I am and I am sure others here are not sure why you keep tryng to lower your credibility level like this, I am pretty sure just because hoser cant show what you want to see its not going to change their minds or the facts lol

In your little world do you believe 100% of everything they tell you "no Ted their is no money missing dumbsfeld is just a loony on a which hunt" , do you honestly think their is no money missing and that gives you rights to come here and try to make me look like I am against the troops.

Why do you think this post was started, because people are happy to see their tax dollars pissed away? I havent asked and he hasent said but I suspect afastcar was shocked to see how much was spent.

SHOW ME THE MONEY where is it, you need to hook up with your leaders and formers leaders and investigate this you stand a better chance of your request for information not getting lost, go watch that again hook up with that Jim Minery guy I bet if he is still alive and was not bought off would bend over backwards to help you, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

FYI (this is more for everybody else not you) I don't live in Chicago, I am 75 miles SW of Chicago, I have been to Chicago about 4 times in my life and that was on school trips to see the sights, ZOO, SEARS tower, Shed aquarium etc., I hate the rat race I have not been with in 50 miles of Chicago in probably 7 years, I never liked any of the politics of Chicago and am against about 90% of Illinois political policy's, I love how you see the word "Chicago" and assume you know me, hopefully you wont wonder why I have little respect for you and mainly the thoughts you have spewed here, I am sure in others eyes you trying to connect me to the bad side or the stigma of "Chicago" has cost you more creditability and respect with others too, whats next "hoser/Illinois/close to Chicago he must have voted for Obama? I can save you the time I didnt vote for Obama! and I have plenty to say about him just start another thread.

I suggest everybody go here and watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU then go here and spend a few hours reading make up your own mind if you see something that's not creditable please point it out http://solari.com/archive/missing_money/

While I never cared for dumbsfeld mainly because he is/was ring leader in a huge good ole boy network that spans the globe and not because of his policy's during his last position in office I consider him creditable witness to the missing money its a shame 911 and all of dumbsfelds weakness distracted from its recovery.

Am I paying you to set here and read and type or is this your day off?

" I think the biggest issue is what government does with our money and accountability"

That is why I replied and what I replied.

I didnt reply saying the troops were pissing away my money and I didnt like the troops or I didnt support the troops like others would like to imply and then as you say question my loyalties or devotion, I don't think they get it, when they question my loyalties or devotion they question many others that have only read and have not replied to this thread, others that question where all the money the military has pissed away and is missing went, I guess their so narrow minded they think I am the only one that wonders where the money went and everybody else is happy trillions in the control of the military is missing.

I wont get into all the stupid mistakes that's been made in just the past 10 years that is now costing tax payers additional billions and probably when its all done will be in the trillions to correct the mistake, I want to know where all the missing money went in my eyes it was stolen, who ever stole it needs caught and punished for it.


" FREEDOM ISNT CHEAP"

That comment has no place in this thread, I know their are a few who would like to explain away wrong doings and bad behavior using the excuse "freedom" but that is all bullshit if you let them run off at the mouth long enough they will be beating the war drums and that has nothing to do with the missing trillions its just a distraction .