I've been using the stuff in my pilots since 2004. It usually looks the same coming out as when I put it in. Last fall when I changed the oil before storage I noticed significant discoloration. A dark grey. I just thought maybe I went too long between changes. I rode about 6 hours this past week in the dunes and decided to change it just to see and here is what it looked like. Never seen this. I've not noticed any difference in the clutch performance so not sure whats going on.

The stuff in the tube is the new going in and it usually looks that good when I drain it. I did some research on wet clutch compatability and didn't see anything where this stuff was an issue. Thanks

Do you think water got into the trans?

If it was foamy, my first thought would be water in the oil, but its not foamy and you are riding in the dunes. Whats left to discolor it like that? Doesn't it have to be wear in the tranny?. I would CSI the tranny if it was mine. The discolored oil is talking to you!

Be prepared...you might get the "why weren't you just running Honda tranny fluid per the spec"

With that said, my first thought was water as well, maybe from a wash down? but if you say "no" then the next step would be a teardown to be safe

Did you run a magnet through the oil?

I'm not sure what it would take inside to discolor a whole quart like that...maybe they changed the detergent formulation somewhere along the line...that might be a reach

I've often thought about a small pump , cooler and filter for the trans, but again, why change it if it's worked so well all these years

Good luck

Take a mixed portion of the material and put it through a piece of paper towel to try and see what the discoloration is.

Possibly clutch disk wear?

Rand

Find a white plastic oil bottle pour all the oil in it let it set a few weeks carefully pour off all the oil when their is about 1/4" oil left you can cut the top off the bottle and see whats left behind, if your drain pan was not perfectly clean before you drained your wasting your time skip this step.

I been using the Mobil 1 15-50 for as long as I can remember in my Pilot I doubt its a oil problem, also been running in my 1999 400EX since new.

I would look at the clutches that's what will get hot enough where it will discolor oil if the torque clutch assembly looks good then you have two options, one switch oil see if it happens with the oil or take the rest of the trans apart and see what parts are discolored has to be a bearing some place that is getting hot, or a bearing spinning on the shaft or in the cases, takes some heat to discolor oil.

Any metallic hue to the oil? I always see a slight metallic hue in mine but ever so slight, has been that way since I bought the Pilot back in 1995.

I change my trans oil and Engine balancer oil after every ride trip (10 gallons of gas or more) now I have my 440 sled Engine I don't have the balancer to worry about...

My oil changes are probably over kill but its cheap insurance, 1.5 quarts of oil is nothing.

One of the things I do when I get back to camp is refill my gas tank I usually feel how hot the trans is and clean the spark plugs too but its part of my ongoing monitoring of my machine, only takes seconds to touch the trans in a few places then make a mental note of how you were using it, build a data base in your head of what "normal" is, you can do the same with other parts of the Pilot like wheel bearings (feel the hubs) CV's shocks etc.

When I am on the road with my RV on a trip while filling the gas tank I use my infrared thermometer to check all the tires and brakes looking for a hot one.

Didnt you and Adnoh take trans temps to compare.

The glass looks to be full of jager, in the tube looks like red bull, are you trying to make a jagerbomb?! All kidding aside buddy hopefully its not serious :(

I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. I've used this stuff enough to know it shouldn't look like this. I think I'm going to bring GN4 and the mobil this trip and change it at the end of each day and see what it looks like. I guess I'll end up having to get into the clutch pack. one more thing above my abilities. Maybe good timing with the new packs Adnoh has come up with if it needs it.

The pink pilot is almost back to Honda red and it looks spiffy. Ready to ride it.

lets look at what we do know.
same oil used before
now it runs dark after ride
No visible signs of a leak
clutch pack condition unknown
the clutch temp was under mine and chris, ez ran the coolest
we recently serviced the axles and seen no signs leakage or damage
The driven was not removed
dirty oil in the trans after one ride is not good


the vent tube is tuck into the correct position ?
driven clutch feel tight to the touch,aka wiggle test ?
check for hole in cases? pressure test via vent hole, use low pressure.
Does the oil have moly in it? Moly in a wet clutch is not good.

question for board, would it be possible a seal could be going bad via a reaction or age to the oil. I have seen old seal/hoses rub black on your hand upon handling when the rubber goes bad

If the fibers are going bad changing brand of oil may not be good as there now soaked in the moble oil. One should soak the fibers in the oil one is gona use. Since you and I have spare fibers. I'm leaning toward a fiber change,flush and inspection if all other is ruled out.

It would be nice to here from other that run that oil and see what there's look like.

What, No MORE pink pilot. Man I needed a pic of me in it first. Photo shop will have to do. Wonder what Chris would say as I passed him in a pink pilot. UMMMMM. juat a thought. I bet he would put in a 900 triple. That would be really wicked.

Adnoh I will check vent tube and driven clutch feel. The 15w50 has 90ppm moly in it, reportedly an insignificant amount as it should have no effect on wet clutch. I didn't think changing oils could be an issue on the cork plates so I'll forgo that test and just change with the mobil at the end of each day and go from there. Both Pilots have this in the balancer and tranny and my baseline has always been the color is almost the same when put in.

I'm sorry you no ride the Pink Pilot. but just moving on and wanted to get it back to stock and can't wait to put some hours on it. Hopefully you'll be out for this ride if the weather cooperates and we can discuss all this over a cold one. I'm wanting to get some of the clutch packs you did from you and pay for anything I get. Thanks

a 900 triple with nitrous!!!!

i need to change my tranny oil and i have no idea whats in there now. i know i need no additives with that slipper clutch. i have always used rotella T in my other 4 wheelers with a clutch. will it work in the pilot?

EZ,

i have not been into the pilto clutch but i have changed many out on 250r and cr500's. they are easy and i am sure you could do it in a couple hours.

I remember back in the day my older Honda CR80 clutches used to go bad and the oil came out just like that, I would do a csi on the plates.
I hope you find out the culprit, great thread!

Like I mentioned earlier.....burnt clutch plates?

Rand

Well I made some progress with the RV and tinkered with the Pilot as usual. I got a little farther than expected so I thought I would offer. If you can get the parts you need to rebuild the wet clutch, stop by on the way to LS next trip.

Thanks for the replies, so lemme ask those of you who think its an in progress clutch failure, or burnt clutches. wouldn't there be material in the oil? I filtered some from the last drain and nothing. Wouldn't there b a noticable loss in power, esp going up the steep hills I was riding. I fell zero performance decline. Not disputing anything you guys are giving me, looking to isolate if possible before I tear into it. I did find the vent tube off and put it back into the air box.

Thx for the offer Stix. I'm gonna do some riding around here and do another drain. But seems all roads lead to examining the internals. Definitely not discounting what others are saying but I would have thought there would have been power loss or slippage. Plus its one of those jobs I'm probably gonna need some outside expertise with.

I'll post the results when they are in for others.

On another note got the tank changed out on the 90, and got the carb off today and hope to have it all back together on my days off this week and running like the 89.

I doubt you would feel any slippage under load if you did feel it by the time you felt it slipping the clutches would be complete toasted.

Remember these clutches only slip when really severe amounts of torque or shock is applied to the input shaft so PURGE your brain of all the thoughts of a "clutch" pack you have from motorcycles and ATVs that use parts that look similar the intended use is completely different.

Really severe amounts of torque or shock, like when you go off a jump and stay on the gas and the rear tires hit the ground and get good enough traction the clutches then will slip enough that it wont split your transmission in two like the FL350 will, the clutch pack slips taking the abuse not the gears and cases.

On my full modified Pilot (about double the factory HP) if I ran through a long series of whoops like the entrance to the dunes from the North camp at Little Sahara WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for the full length then got out at the end and felt the trans the clutch pack area would be much warmer than the rest of the trans so I assume the clutches were being used in a condition like this also, any oil that was splashed on the clutch pack was flung off and against the cases transferring heat, this is why that area feels warmer than the rest of the trans.

In theory the more HP you run the more the clutches will slip when power is applied to the transmission I bet you could reach the point of too much power where if you were on pavement trying to ride wheelies where traction was good you could easily smoke the clutch pack in the trans, simply put the input torque would meet the clutches designed slippage point and do its job protecting the transmission, it was designed to slip for fractions of a second at a time their is no real design to combat the heat of slippage like seen in motorcycles and ATV's where the rider intentionally is slipping the clutch as they ride/race, these "wet" clutches are bathed in oil where the heat from the clutches can be carried away from the source fast enough the oil and parts never get hot enough to discolor the oil.

The torque clutch (clutch pack) in the Pilot is not a "wet" clutch its more of a dry clutch its splash lubricated when your driving the Pilot it does NOT set half bathed in oil like a cycle or ATV does when you stop the HOT or WARM oil that made contact with the clutch by being slung up in the trans runs off the clutches and any heat build up is then has to be carried away through the metal parts of the trans (input shaft to the bearings to the cases) their is no problem with this design it works perfectly until you exceed the design limits.

You need to take yours apart and inspect you can see the inside of a Pilot trans in the service manual, parts break down, here viewtopic.php?f=72&t=3004
Plenty discussion on these clutches on this site.
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11758
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11383&start=0
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13439&start=0

If your torque clutch checks out you need to remove the trans and look inside to see whats going on (CSI) to make your oil look like it does.

More info I dug up http://www.pilotodyssey.com/transoil.htm

any update on this? did you get it apart?

Not yet. Down to one arm due to an injury and hoping to be able to get to it in a week or two. I will post up what I find hopefully help others in the future.

Sorry to hear you are injured. My left hand is just healing from cut. Sucks not being able to use both hands doesn't it.

Hope your ok EZ, At least you have the Wildcat if you don't heal in time

Thx Stix, have had a cast on it to immobilize for now and probably come off next week. Just a bad sprain and should be good to go by ride time. Just a pain as I wanted to try to get into the clutchs on the 89 and that's not gonna happen before this ride. Good to have back ups though.

We just finished up a 4 day trip at Little Sahara OK. I put about 6 hours on the 89, and 6 on the 90 on fresh 15w50. They both look damn near identical, little less grey/green when I smeared some on my fingers as opposed to looking at the stuff in the glass. I'm beginning to think the Mobil 1 has changed formula's or something. First 3 pics are the 89.

Is anyone else running this and done a recent change and what does it look like?