Thanks for the idea, FLA Edd -

The more i thought about this, the more i thought it might be a worthwhile test to see how much air was actually able to sneak through. Turns out, quite a bit. I am now thinking that if this wasn't the primary issue, it was a major contributing factor to whatever else it could have been - clearances, jetting, etc.





With the heat shrink on and the tube placed in the hole, there was virtually no air leaking VS. quite a considerable amount without it. Kind of surprised this hasn't been experienced or addressed by anyone in the past. Anyone got any thought on this?

Interesting

I doubt very much that that is your main leak problem.
Most of us I'm sure have bought Odys with bad or missing carb cable boots/covers.I've never had one that became the reason for lean burnouts.
LeanOuts were always due to something else.
I've bought maybe 8-9 Odys over the years,most if not all had very sus boots.
That area is really not enough BEHIND/AFTER the jets to make a real diff,it's over the top transition area of before/aft if you know what I mean.
Don't count on this cable boot to be your main prob fix...keep aware!

Cool you gave it a try. That's exactly how I was thinking.
There's more technically advanced people on here than me. I have ideas and they have years of pilot knowledge,
I'm rooting for you.
Edd

I agree that the carb cable is not the problem. May I ask if you had the shop that performed the bore & hone to show you what the piston measures and what the cylinder measures? Any competent shop will be happy to do so, plus your paying for it. If you don't have the proper tools to check and measure, I always ask the shop to show me what everything measures and to check all before leaving the shop. At that time you can also ask to make sure the cylinder is not out of round.

If it were me, I would take the cylinder and most recent piston to your shop and ask them to physically measure both in front of you. If the measurements don't have the needed clearance, I would ask them to pay for a new piston and possibly go to a different shop. If they haven't been able to get it right after three times, they may not be the shop to be doing your work.

Do me a favor when you get it back from bore shop. Get me your ring gap numbers. Take these in four places.
Thanks Adnoh

Dammit. I really thought that was the issue but if it wasn't, i'm glad to find out now rather than moving forward under a false hope. As for the piston clearances, I did not. It is the local Honda dealer so i took them at their word. May not have been the best thing to do. On the way over there now as the new piston (82mm) just arrived and will have them show me the measurements as well as confirm the cylinder is true before deciding how to proceed.



Will do. It'd be nice to be able to point to something definite as the problem before going through this process again. insanity...

I still feel the cable wasn't helping anything. Enough air is sucked through the carb with enough velocity that it pulls fuel up and through it. Fuel would present more resistance than just air,path of least resistance ect.
I can't say I'm 100% correct but I've read nothing that makes me think Im 100% wrong either.

Spoke to mechanic i have been working with and he is the one who does the machining. Confirmed piston was bored on site with vertical milling machine and finished with clearance of .004 and confirm cross hatch pattern was present. Requested they go to .0045 on this one. They have a machine shop and a dyno on site and can actually re-sleeve a cylinders as well. I had mentioned that if i needed to do this ever again (this piston is 82MM), i'd be sending the cylinder off to LA Sleeves - he let me know he sources sleeves through them and has everything needed to replace them there. Hopefully, it will be quite some time before i need to consider that.

Plan is to rebuild, pressure test and install. Once Engine is back in, go through a few heat cycles and do basic initial carb adjustments (airscrew & idle). Shop has ability to run the Pilot on the dyno for jetting. They want $200 to do it but after three pistons, thinking it may be worthwhile.

Thanks and I agree with you that it definitely wasn't helping anything. I was pretty convinced that was my issue when i found it but either way, it ain't leaking there no more!

Yes it is sealed up now and I guess we will never know for sure if it played a role or not.
At this point 200$ seems like a drop in the bucket especially when you consider the peice of mind you will be getting. I only pay someone else to work on my toys when I have no choice and In this case I would bite the bullet.
Any progress is still progress.

Pressure test the Engine before installing the carb and exhaust once verified its sealed ensure the exhaust is sealed http://www.pilotodyssey.com/Siliconesealer.htm

Find a rubber hose that slides tight over the throttle cable and cap to seal detials covered here http://www.pilotodyssey.com/39mm.htm

BEFORE you run again clean the carb ensure all passages jets are clean and flowing.

Drain the gas tank their is a plug on the bottom.

Remove the fuel filter spray carb cleaner in the inlet side of the filter put your finger thumb over the openings shake the heck out of it drain the filter on a white towel see what comes out, repeat this until it comes out clean.

Do the fuel flow test to ensure your pump is putting out.

Unscrew the spark plug boot from the coil wire cut off about 1/4" of the wire screw the cap back on.

Does the spark plug boot fit tight on the spark plug?

Remove the skid plate look at the center of the crankcase right below where the rod is look for damage to the case and for any oil residue on the cases, former owner might have had a chunk of piston 'wipe the cases' as it passed through their causing a crack in the cases or distorting them enough to make them leak.

Thanks Hoser for the feedback -

Engine will definitely be pressure tested

Carb leak has been corrected - heat shrink tubing = Done

Carb has been completely cleaned and blown out with compressed air

Gas tank is drained and will be flushed

Filter was cleaned and checked on last piston rebuild but will do again.

Fuel flow has been confirmed - done

Spark is strong and boot fits well but will do this also

motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) was completely rebuilt 6 months ago and cases are in good shape - confirmed

Also picked up 5 gallons of 110 proof fuel to help keep things cool during break in and going to move from 40:1 to 32:1 going forward.

Hopefully this time will be the last time - for a while.

Thanks again,
Dave

Made progress yesterday and this morning. seems Ive gotten really good at r & r of pilot motors – not something that was on the bucket list but hey, there are worse things. idle hands and all...

New piston @ 82mm, cylinder bored w .005 clearance. Ring gap at .018 at 1" below top of cylinder.
motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) reassembled and pressure tested - no leaks
initial compression test @ 135 before start up
Carb leak has been corrected - heat shrink tubing
Carb has been completely cleaned and blown out with compressed air and installed 182 main. pilot still 55 and needle is a DGJ on center clip.
fuel filter completely cleaned out w carb cleaner
Gas tank drained and filled w 110 proof @ 32:1
started right up. had air screw on keihin 39mm carb set at baseline 1 1/2 turns out. had to adjust idle screw and throttle cable to get idle up. then adjusted air screw an ended up with about 2 1/4 total out from seated. ran until fan came on and complete cool down. Ran one additional heat cycle this evening. sounds good, less "ping" from exhaust. still think a dyno tune @ $200 might be a good investment. cheaper than sleeving piston and starting again.

noticed small dent in pipe at the bottom where something must have hit it, again- small. this a problem?

please scrutinize. don't want to do this again.
thanks - Dave

Check carb float level?
Reverse blow clean the small internal screen filters on both the main and reserve fuel pick up lines ends?
I would be running a fuel pressure gauge to monitor the fuel PSI.That way you can tell immediately if the fuel delivery system is performing correctly.
The higher the RPM/Throttle demand,the higher the PSI reading should be.
On my AC550Pilot,I learned the hard way,on mine the carbs need 7PSI after 5,000RPMs,which is on the mains.
Also run a coolant temp gauge,this will also warn you if things are getting hot thru leanouts.
My 1st racing Ody had a needle style temp gauge,and started to rapidly rise in only about 200-300 meters.
The needle usually sat around 9 o'clock,but rapidly rose to past 12 o'clock in about 6-8 seconds after a go/whoa run.
You could visually see the needle rise and rise.
I did compression checks,and found 3 psi losses each run which comfirmed all was no good,along with plug chops of course.
But can't do plug chops on the run.
It saved me a total rebuild,never can have enough warning devices...(do they make em for marriage?)

I feel you're anxiety,at least that's what I would be feeling.
The temp gauge is an idea however it will let you know too little too late.
EGT. Exhaust gas temp gauge will let you know ASAP it there is an issue and with it you can almost tune as good as the dyno shop. At least good enough to keep from getting lean enough to do damage. The gauge assembly will be less than the shop doing it and the added benefit is that the EGT may save you're Engine in the future. Wouldent have to guess if it's cold enough to go up a jet size or if you're air filter needs service. It's physics. You go even a little lean and you're temp goes up. Rich and it goes down.
At least give it a little thought.

so I mentioned EGT because I thought a wideband would not work on a two stroke. I did a little research and a two stroke can use a wideband.
I just sold a dynojet wideband commander with LCD touch screen which would allow you to tune it as good as the shop. It data logged rpms along with air fuel ratio also can do tps but not on you're ride due to no tps sensor. You could make a run and play it back right there on the screen as well as hook it up to you're computer.
Three wires ,power,ground and one to you're coil for RPM and a bung needs to be welded into the exhaust for the sensor. There is another lead that is programmable to perform a action if the afr falls below what you select. Cut the Engine/warning light ect.

I have one more available. It has had very little use the screen looks new and the sensor is as close to new as you can get. It also has a new bung with plug.

I'd like to sell it but if you covered shipping both ways and bought a bung to replace mine once you use it I would loan it to you. With shipping both ways and a bung you would be out less than 25$.
I would just ask that should it get lost,damaged or stolen ect that you would agree to purchase it for 165$,or if you decide to keep it.
I'd like to have it back in 30 days or so.

I could get it shipped priority on Monday

Edd

Bugeye - Tank was purchased from a guy in Cali that i have sourced parts from and was completely flushed when installed so should be good there. Tank looked brand new inside and out with the exception of a few rock chips in the paint and yes, definitely did check float level and (after 15 you tube videos and a lot of reading) it seemed to be within spec but this got me thinking, the carb sits at a bit of an angle in the machine. Should that be taken into account when setting the level?



Don't want to start overthinking this but it may be a little late for that too.
Also considering the fuel pressure gauge - maybe not a bad idea there. Cheap and easy.

Edd - thanks for the offer to use the wideband. Would probably prefer to just buy it though. Already set up to go to the shop and have it put on the dyno but may want to buy it or an EGT afterwards to monitor. Any advantage to one over the other?

Oh, and as for feeling some anxiety, that is putting it mildly...

thanks again for the continued feedback guys, it is appreciated.

Dave

I didn't want to come off as trying to sell it. The offer stands. The wide band is way more precise than an EGT or a cheaper narrow band. The readings are instant with virtually no lag time.
Used my new one on my buggy for the first time today and let me share for just a second.
After hitting the turbo hard for a couple of miles it would run crappy and have a misfire to it. Always did this but cleared up. I assumed I was getting lean on top and that was causing the Engine to randomly fire. After using my wideband today I could see my issue was running rich after hitting the turbo hard. My conclusion is that my fuel pressure regulator needs to be looked at as it may be hanging up.
The one I have now is a AEM wideband failsafe. I would have preferred the dyno jet but couldent make it work with my gps. Not enough room for both on my steering wheel.
Edd

And yes the lean of the carb will make a difference I would think.

So did you have to do different air screw adjustments ect this time from what you had before? If so would back up the throttle cable involvement. As in if the idle was low now could be because the air leak was plugged. I promis I'm Not trying to beat a dead horse

Hey Edd, no worries on the wideband, I am actually interested and the price is right. will still go through the dyno process at this point but to move forward, I'd like to be able to monitor things a little more closely than by sound!
as for the aircrew adjustments, previous rebuild was done by someone else and never had issues with idling so left it alone and only tried working on the main jets. basically started from scratch this time with bottom up carb tune procedure. I do know the air screw was only one half turn off seated before and is now out almost 2 1/2 turns with a much bigger jet (182 vs 172). still hoping the throttle cable was the culprit too. we'll update after dyno tune.

Can't wait.

So I picked up my pilot from shop today and long story short, carb apparently needed a long bubble bath in an ultrasonic cleaner (who doesnt?). When first dropped off, they were unable to get a/f ratios to adjust below 13 at idle regardless of jetting (came in with a 55 pilot jet and went up to a 72 without effect) and started to spike on a dyno pull. Immediately shut it down and removed the carb, completely disassembled and gave it a long soak in carb cleaner, blew out all orifices, reassembled and installed. Started right up and everything fell in line. Now have the 55 pilot jet back in and a 165 main jet, needle clipped in center mark and A/F is consistent at right around 12 - a little rich but I'm fine with that for now. Compression started at 135 fresh off rebuild and up to 140 now. Will probably try to fine tune the mixture a little leaner after a week or so of riding but just happy to be back up and running.

I have to say, I feel a bit stupid after all that has happened to find out that even after some heavy duty cleaning with carb cleaner and compressed air (on three separate occasions), I still didn't get the job done and it cost me 3 Pistons to learn the hard way. Still a novice in the land of two strokes but definitely more knowledgeable than I was. Hope this ends up helping someone else down the road and let me know if there are more details needed.
Thanks to all for feedback and input, it has been appreciated!

That's great news dip!
Now go BACK there on the dyno,remove that new carb cable boot, retest, and see IF any what diff it makes?