Well I went racing this Sat arvo at Northam Speedway,Downunder,and obviously had a ball.
Overall the FL800 went CRAZY,but steering was a major prob....basically I could'nt!
The acceleration rate was awesome,but letdown by the mega understeer,everything I gained in the straighter bits I lost in the turning attempts.
The front just wanted to lift all the time,and made the understeer worse.
Trying to control(or dare I say drive this MoFo) was a fun but frustrating challenge.
Wayne you have made an awesome Pilot here,mega thanks Mate,just needs some changes/mods to suit the twisty,short track racing,Vs the wheely beasty you designed for.
I have'nt had so much fun or had Pilot wheely comments at the track EVER! It was a hit!Take a bow Diablo!
Need to bias some power away from the rear to the front.
I'll be installing shorter shocks to lower the front,and swap front wheels maybe from the Drak-21-8-10 Vs 25-8-12 currently.
I can say conservatively that I was losing 1-2 secs per bend/turn,about 100yards per lap easy due to not being able to turn.
The rear brakes are now shot,in my last race was in the lead,when the rear LHS hand brake pulled all the way in on one of the back corners,had to wash off the speed by going wide and up/around the berm,barely made it.Persisted for another couple of laps,till I decided was just too dangerous,so pulled off onto the side of the straight about 50yards before the finish line.I thought I had another couple of laps to go,found out I was on the last of our finall 10 lapper slapper and only needed to coast to the finish line 50y away.What a !@#$% D' Head I am!!!!!!!!! Hey don't agree so easily!
Need to do a CSI on the rear brakes,could'nt even lock them up ever,but need to for rear end steering.

Anyway here's some pics of the skid lid,nerf floor,poly carb rim covers that I made up for the races,still need to do hood etc.

I'll post the race vids asap after uploading.

Ran into the same problem with my Pilot and its one of the reasons I have my 440 detuned rather than full out, I detuned mine by using a single 38mm carb and a 2 into 1 pipe, stock the Engine I used was suppose to be 85-92 HP 85 HP with dual pipes and dual 38mm carbs, 92 HP version was dual pipes and dual 40mm carbs

The 2 into 1 pipe I bought made 92 HP on the dyno on a more modern 440 Engine, I was told my setup should make a honest 75 HP

Not sure you want to detune that monster I bet its a blast other things I did to make my Pilot turn a lot better was to put more sag into my front shocks, they are also on the softer side when I turn my Pilot its so soft it leans like it needs a front stabilizer but that was the whole idea of setting up my shocks like this, when the Pilot leans it transfers more weight on the front outside tire and the Pilot turns like its on rails, I avoid bottoming out the front shocks because they are the FOX air shocks and I have the oil level set up where the spring rate rises real fast as the shock approaches the end of its travel, like to see guys with a spring over shock do this....

When I installed my shocks I made the upper mounts adjustable I currently have them set higher in the mount this lowers the front of the Pilot MOST guys like to raise the front of the Pilot higher in the front than the back, not sure why more bling homo crapola they think it looks cool? By keeping my front lower in the front I also give up a little ground clearance but more weight is naturally shifted to the front and my Pilot drives like its on rails, guys wonder how I blast through tight trails so fast

don't get me wrong with this 440 many times I still have to let off the gas momentary to allow the weight to shift forward so I can steer.

Your on the right track try installing shorter front tires.

Can you add more sag to your front shocks?

If your not doing a bunch of big air jumps where the chances of nose diving is a issue try adding about 20 lbs weight to the front of your Pilot it will really help the steering, get a old pillow case or just use your wifes, put about 20 lbs of sand (weighs about the same as 30 cans of beer?) in it throw it in the front of the tub put your feet on top take it for a ride you will see what I mean.

I would love to have the power your Pilot makes in mine, not sure what I would do with it all but I bet its fun, had my 440 Pilot out yesterday in the grass doing power slides

I have a square ex speedway lump of steel 40mm thick on standby for the front if need be?

Well I had a balltearer time again,mega thanks to all that make it happen.
The new PilotFL800 was more than a handful.Was too scared to use full throttle over some of the hills/mounds for fear of flipping.The front end just wants to lift all the time with any throttle,making turning near on impossible.I spent equal times off the track as on I think! :duh:Will need to sort this out,maybe smaller front wheels,down from the 25" currently to the Drak's front 21"? Get the stance more downward at the front,also most prob will need to add some weight on the front...no weight jokes please!
This new 130Whorespower,wheely Pilot is a diff kettle of fish to what I've been used to over the years.I'm hooked like a snapper!Started with a std 30HP Pilot,then 50HP pilot,then 100HP Drak,now this one 130hp in a small light weight frame.
The other prob I had was could'nt lock up the rear brakes for rear end steering.The brakes were getting worse and worse,until in the 10 lapper slapper they totally went.No pressure resistsance at all.On the eight lap I think,at the top northern end,I could'nt stop and had to climb the berm to wash off the speed...now currently having to wash off the skid marks in the laundry.After that it was too dodgy,and pulled off the track at the straight,thinking there was still a couple of laps to go,did'nt know it was the last lap!
Anyway thanks again to all the helpers,volunteers.
Videos up soon as they upload...last 10 lapper the battery went flat!

First vid,unfortunately was on the ol Samsung std cam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Il2BOLb ... ature=plcp" ."..

This ones in 1080HD Sony Cam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT_2B_5E ... ature=plcp" ."..

http://s355.photobucket.com/albums/r449 ... l20121.mp4" .".." .".." .".." .".." ."..
Click on Full screen size!

You boiled the brake fluid in the rear brakes I use to do the same when racing tight woods where you needed a lot of rear brakes to make turns, the brake pads are probably gone too remove them and inspect, I use to burn up 3/4 of a set of new pads per race day I have about 10 sets of brake pads that have 1/4 wear left in them, ECB pads were metal to metal 1/2 way through the race the Honda pads were the only ones I found to take the punishment, maybe the ECB is better today?

Learn to brake by scrubbing off speed you just twich the steering right to left a little its like throwing out the anchor also use the front brakes get the front brakes working right they will stop 2x better than the rear and never over heat, one of the first things I noticed when I installed my 440 was I needed more brakes I considered hooking the front and rear brakes together so they all work together then install a proportioning valve to I could regulate the braking affect front to back.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... MUBEPMCMAk

I like the 1080HD !

After the race put your hand on the trans see how hot it is also feel the top where the clutch pack is you might even pull the cover off the clutch pack and see if anything is discolored or been over heating, if your careful you can reuse that gasket over and over.

I would change the trans oil after every race weekend...

The photobucket vid is from another member.If they decide to film regular I will buy them a better camera! They stood central on that bridge flyover.

I prefer the top left hand side track posi,under that large light pole for video race capture.It shows the blind spots that can't be seen from the pits/spectators area,not the ideal track layout.
Here's an eg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVpvyGoTdTY" ."..

The trans is not the Honda OEM,it's the RPM model

I will CSI the rear brakes ASAP,they are the OEM Pilot,but reverseed on the other side of the trans.

I also need to update into a HD HellCam,the ol Viosports POV std just does'nt cut it now.....does it ever $top?

Oh yeah I forgot about the RPM trans they are bullet proof just keep a eye on the input shaft bearings that's the only part of his trans I have heard requires frequent changing.

How about some pics of your rear brake setup on the trans?

Does your year Engine have the clutch side crank bearing you have to grease?

The night race looks cool.

It never ends only gets worse, I bought me two of these when they were on sale for 150 bux http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... amera.html
Each came with a extra battery and a bunch of mounting attachments, remote control...

Clutch side bearings have their own oil injection lines I think? Wayne would know.
I'll take some brake pics tomorrow,Wayne-Mr Diablo did a top job of fabing.

Best brakes I've ever had for this racing are the Drak's 4 pot Wilwood.Never let me down,good feel,and always stopped the heavier Drak with no fading.Enduros,short track,long track all day long.
Last Bullsbrook knockout comp which I won,had me doing 23 races for the events finall showdown and win.Brakes were awesome considering what they have to do,REPEATEDLY.
Might see if I can use my Drak's one for pattern to trial on the RPM?

That Drift cam is the same as recommended to me instead of the new HD Viosports,apparently warranty claims are like 2 outa 5? and the afterservice warranty is !@#$%

My.02$

Hoser nailed it-"when the Pilot leans it transfers more weight on the front outside tire"-this is why the Briggs built cars are WIDER in the front than the back.

In no order...

You need more grip in the front and less in the rear to get the car to rotate better.

Anyone in your club have scales you can borrow?Try to get the weight more even front to back.(also as Hoser said)Probably not easy on a pilot.You definately don't have a power problem,add some weight!

Less agressive shorter rear tire?I don't see a problem with the front tire diameter,just the ride height.

With you in the car ready to go,front control arms should be almost parallel to the ground.

How about leaving the Engine and tuning with the clutches for power delivery?

looks like a fun track.

If you never had problems with the Drakart rear brake I would install the same size rotor and caliper on the Pilot with the Pilot caliper you better buy a 6 pack of brake pads and check them between each race, each time you boil the brake fluid you should really bleed the brakes and use new fluid.

The little brake disc that comes on the RPM trans is and was designed to stop the input shaft from turning so you could put the trans into gear not for stopping the whole machine, cant count the machines with RPM gear boxes I have seen over the years using the input shaft brake as their only brake for the rear at lest the most of them were using it WITH the front brakes and the bias was set so the front brakes were taking most the abuse not the back, one comment I heard is "adding another brake to the trans takes away power from the Engine and adds weight (you have to spin up the mass of the hub and disc and you have to haul that extra 10 lbs around the track) its much cheaper and faster (car is faster) to just replace the small disc and the brake pads often" another words it was a sacrifice many were willing to make to win races, many of the guys running the RPM trans was also running out of gas pulling into the pits after a race because they only would put enough gas in the tank to make it to the finish line not make it back to the pits with 1-2 gallons left over... You will also notice many never painted their cars because "it adds weight" unpainted Briggsbuilt weighs 10 lbs less than a painted one, talk to guys that drag race snowmobiles they will tell you how many HP per pound cost I forget the price but its not cheap for a 700lb machine.... All sounds silly but its smart if you think about it, you buy a Briggsbuilt then paint it +10 lbs then you add another rear disc and caliper +10 lbs then you top off the tank so you pull into the pits with 1-2 gallons left over +10 lbs you end up 30 lbs heavier than if you would have used the car per design 30 lbs cost how much HP?

Never really thought about it or added it up but I bet I have spent about 500.00 in rear brake pads since I bought my Pilot back in 1996

Take a look at the front arms(and everything else!) on Shoubadabas car.

Are your rear tires ITP Mudlites? From what I hear, they are not the greatest track tire. Lots of side bite, which prevent the rear from drifting. As you see in the pic above of shoubadaba and halorising's cars, halorising is using ITP mudders (or kendas, I don't remember which), but point is, halorising was complaining about too much side bite in his rear end too (LOL...no homo). I sugested for him to trim off every other square shaped lug on the outer tread on his rear tires which would allow the car to loosen up a bit in the turns. He had excellent forward traction on our track day yesterday. My stock pilot tires were the opposite, great ability to slide the rear with tons of control in the turns, but forward bite was a bit low, and they have almost 100% tread still. I might have had my air pressure off too, was running around 7.5psi. Also make sure you are using DOT4 brake fluid, DOT3 will boil even in a stock powered pilot.

Great videos! I will be uploading mine soon. Did they ever water that track? Or were you fighting dust all day? I really like the high-speed, "floating" table tops and sweeping turns. Really cool!

Baz, how many MORE Races are you winning with the 130 whorespower as opposed to the 30 whorespower of the original Pilot?

Thanks all for the info,tips guys,much appreciated!

Davo,this is the FL800's first race meet and so far is good!
Even tho had the steering,brakes prob,ended up with 3 wins.

Took the rear Pilot caliper off this arvo for inspection,but prior to,also checked the yoke brake handle for travel and was back to firm?Must of got too hot?
Anyway,I removed the guide pin first whilst the caliper is anchored,the lil cover screw was a bitch!
Then removed the 2 caliper mount bolts,tried to jiggle it outa there,fought me the whole way,nearly gave up,then the lhs pad fell out,more jiggle,and the rhs fell out.
Only then was able to pull out the caliper.
They are both wasted,and showing uneven wear,both in alignment and L to R thickness.Common I suppose,always seems the same,guess it's the wear marks on the guide pin not providing the necessary even slide.
The parking brake adjuster bolt was also way out.
Was lucky to find in my blokes-shed a new pair of EBC FA111 Kevlar pads new,still in the package on my peg board.Totally forgot about em.BLISS!
I'm hoping just a general service,new or slightly rotated pins for fresh shaft contact,will do the trick,also a fluid flush and refill.

Here's some pics of the caliper setup on the RPM trans.

Forgot these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d888JOLr6s

Last race 10 lapper slapper,started last on the grid,and worked thru way quicker than I thought?...Bliss again!
Got a healthy lead,then the rear brakes went awol,so tried to go around with next to no brakes,de-throttling early to slow down,and using the berms to wash off the speed.
Was too dangerous with this wheely beasty(it was driving me,not me it! ) so decided to park it on the straight away just a short distance from the flaggie....it was the last lap!
Can you say !@#$%^HEAD?
Battery in cam went flat! !@#$%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POkQX0ZM ... ature=plcp" .".." ."..

When you over heat the brakes the fluid will boil creating a bubble of brake fluid in the caliper when you try to brake the master cylinder does not have enough volume to compress the bubble then the fluid and provide you with braking, once the brake system cools and the brake fluid cools it condenses back to a liquid that you can compress so your brakes go back to working normal.

Here is some pics that shows the common places the caliper wears out http://www.pilotodyssey.com/rearbrakes.htm Speedchaser has fixes for most of these problems . Follow the links in this thread viewtopic.php?t=4011

Few tips for you on the Pilot-Odyssey caliper, one the dust screw is usually a screw that has a slotted head no screwdriver really fits well and its a bitch to remove, before trying to remove take a small hammer and tap it a few times to shock the threads so they brake loose easier.

Once you get the dust screw out throw it away, take a old brake pad hanger pin that is worn out and cut it off close to the threads this is your NEW dust screw you can actually remove in the future and you need one less tool for working on the brakes.

Another tip is you don't have to replace the worn pin you can simply slightly and carefully grind a little off the taper part of the pin so when you tighten up the pin the worn part is now indexed and facing another direction that is not worn, grind a little then install it in the caliper with no pads see what way the worn out area is now facing....

Make sure you put never seize or a high temp grease on the threads so they will come out after 100 heat cycles and all the mud and dirt gets too them...

If that was my Pilot I would do two things, remove the Pilot caliper and save it for a spare or sell it to someone that needs one then I would buy and adapt a after market caliper that has more brake pad material than the Pilot does, IMO the rear pads don't have enough surface area for even a stock Pilot.

Another option I would look into is installing a second small caliper on the input shaft of the trans and have both calipers tied together so both are providing braking you would be splitting some of the load if the piston sizes are too different sized in the calipers you would have to use a proportioning valve between the calipers? Not sure how that would work...

Not sure about their but here their due to all the bikes wrecked here in the USA daily their is a ton of street bike calipers that sell cheap you could probably use one of them I would check on the cost of replacement pads before picking a caliper.... Try evilbay or local salvage yards

Hey backyard sled engineer here...

I tried to get a different rear brake caliper, basically because of cost of the Honda, but the brake disc is large and needed to be inside the frame so the disc is very close to the Trans. The caliper needs to be a single sided puck design. All the new modern calipers I could find were dual piston or quad piston but too fat to get in there. I think Bazz would need to put outboard brakes on the rear if he keeps the large Mudlites on.

As for turning, I never turned the thing only straight shots. I have no one to race or compair my Pilots to. I also never messed with the shocks, definately need to put the nose down more but it will be hard to get it to turn with those tires on the back. With a less aggressive tire then she'll want to just spin. I put on stock Pilot tires and yep no more forward bite and just spins, pretty boring in the sandy river beds I ride in.

The small input brake is hooked up to the parking brake handle, parking brake actuates a rear master cylinder off of a Suzuki dirt bike rear. Those pads are really small and not sure they would survive much abuse at all, just use to stop imput for shifting and parking brake like Hoser stated. One of my ideas is to extend the shaft the small brake is on - get it further out past the main brake - and then put on a larger disc and a good dual piston caliper. Almost all sleds use the input jackshaft as a brake and not the drive shaft. They also don't have big calipers as your mechanical advantage being on the jackshaft.

Ak

I like when you just power right past the guy at 1:15, then pitch through that left hand sweeper and pull the inside front tire up for the whole turn! Killer!

Thanks Nick/Wayne.

Well here's today's update.
Worked on the rear caliper this morn before I went to work.
Was going to use Kneedit(2 part epoxy sausage type bonder) but remembered that still had some RapidFix.
This shit is good,easiest to work with as I suffer from dermatitis...it cracks me up!
I used an appropriate sized drill bit shank(pre-sprayed with release agent)into the caliper sliding/floating bore to hold the shape of the orig housing.
Dries rapidly!
Then installed it all,used silicone tits,I mean grease on the sliding pins etc,then flushed out the ol fluid,and that's where it got interesting.
After removing the master cylinder cap,then the white plastic rectangular shape rubber gasket keeper,I found the anti-condensation rubber seal/bucket to be fully stretched all the way down?out!
I am sure this is due to the over-extension of the piston from the totally worn out pads,and dragging out/vaccuming the fluid and the rectangular rubber gasket thingy down..

I know all the smart people people here are helping get those brakes fixed but I gotta chime in and agree with Nick, that pass at 1:15 was really cool to see.

I've watched AK's video of that pilot no less than 20 or 30 times, I often wondered what it looked like in a track setting. It's really cool to see it getting pushed to the limit.

Just curious, how fast do figure you were doing at peak coming down the front stretch? It's hard to tell from the video.

Again, thanks for those videos, next time you're racing, please do the same thing!

Wait wait wait.... Ak sold the fl800??????? where the hell was i for this?????

You've got to know the secret handshake Kid!

Not much to show,but here's an update from todays "I just wanna be with ya" time with the FL800.
Bled all the fluids and adjusted, cleaned the front shoes,fluid brown as,crappy lookin' fluid like I've never seen before,back and front.
Could be all that pristine Alaskan FREEZIN' air that Ak calls home,and I call BRrrrrrrrrr... WTF! How on god's earth can you function in those temps conditions? I would definately need DGI to function there...Direct Glycol Injection,straight into my veins!
Give me 100F any day. Makes the beer taste sweeter as well.
To me it looked like the orig brake fluid,because I've never seen it THAT deteriorated/beyond it's use by date.

Diablo never bothered with the brakes,don't need em when ya showing off pullin' all those attention seeking wheely "Look at meeeee I'm Sandra Deeeeeee" videos!
Only jokin' Mate!
Both front and rear shoes of the front brakes still have enough material to warrant not changing.
Hand brake lever is very low,but I'm sure it will pump up tomorrow morn after doing the service,adjustments to the RHS.

Check out the colour of these Alaskan puppies piss.






Need to look at the rear wheel alignments next,pos camber and toe outs currently,thinkin' should be neg camber and toe-ins to combat understeer?




I also did a vernier check on the drums useable diamater's spec,and it's hardly worn at all.
Even when I did the fingernail drag check on the inside of the drum,there was no wear lips/tiers.
Diablo,did you use the front brakes EVER?????? Ya big show-off.

Well I had a good productive weekend working on the FL800.
Did the rear brakes first,then the fronts,happy to report the fronts came up very well.
Nice hard full handle pressure now,just wish I had em at last Sat arvo's Race meet!
Then I started on the front armour-gettin'.
Remembered I still had the ol white one I made years back,to use as a pattern/template.
This one will allow for the central Tacho,not sure how it's finish up yet till I gin around with it a bit more.

Here's some pics,I wish I would have taken the before ones of the front brakes,what a mess.
Now all cleaned up,adjusted,bled etc,has like 4mm + thickness still on the shoes,and the drums are fine as well.
That Ak,he just never bothered using brakes.

More pics.This is the first prototype,will mod as I go along.